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I was at another forum and a guy was saying the Costa Rica has a welfare system that really works and he thinks it is better than the one in the USA. Can anyone get me up to speed?
This is an excerpt from it. I cut out most of it because it is political.
“I like the idea you gotta work or you don’t eat…Costa Rica’s welfare program (WORKS) I got lots more but the bottom line is this.”
Are we speaking about the social benefits that would be applicable to Costa Rican citizens only?
This might be a stupid question but does welfare actually work anywhere?
Scott,I have no idea at all what they are referring to. I never heard of a welfare system in CR. i GUESS I WILL TRY TO GET THE GUY THAT POSTED IT TO EXPOUND ON IT AND GET BACK WITH YOU.darn caps! sorry
[quote=”Scott”]This might be a stupid question but does welfare actually work anywhere?[/quote]
The answer, of course, depends entirely upon what you mean by, “. . . actually work . . .”. If the measure of success is that welfare greatly reduces homelessness, malnutrition, unnecessary suffering due to a lack of medical care, etc, then clearly welfare does work in the U.S.
I spent two glorious years as a welfare caseworker managinging the eligibility for over 450 needy families all of whom could and did demonstrate their eligibility for the benefits that the law provided. And I can tell you from much firsthand experience that, in those terms, welfare works exceedingly well.
Now, if by “. . . actually work . . .” you mean something about ending dependency, that’s clearly another matter. But one cannot become independent tomorrow if one does not survive today, and that very survival has been assured by more than one welfare system.
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]I spent two glorious years as a welfare caseworker managinging the eligibility for over 450 needy families all of whom could and did demonstrate their eligibility for the benefits that the law provided. And I can tell you from much firsthand experience that, in those terms, welfare works exceedingly well.[/quote]
Did you run into cases that had to be weeded out due to ineligibility?
Speaking about all types of assistance, unemployment, disability, food stamps, etc., we all know that there are those who will gull the system when they can. It is not entirely the responsibility of the case workers to weed them out. It’s up to all citizens to report suspected abuse. This I think is the biggest failure of the welfare system.
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]Now, if by “. . . actually work . . .” you mean something about ending dependency, that’s clearly another matter. But one cannot become independent tomorrow if one does not survive today, and that very survival has been assured by more than one welfare system.[/quote]
Although there are those who will never be capable of independence the workfare programs seem to work for many. Training, retraining and education go a long way toward independence.
Here in Costa Rica I think the welfare system consists mostly of health care and training/education [b](INA)[/b] but there are programs to help the indigent obtain property legally and to build homes.
I’ve only been here three years and these are the programs that I am aware of.
Les, in our county we interpreted the rules strictly. We did process and deny initial applications when they weren’t eligible and we did terminate recipients who became ineligible. I also terminated one recipient who was marginally employed and still eligible but who refused to cooperate and report her earnings so that her net benefit could be calculated.
I was personally aware of three outright fraud cases one of which I followed to its rightful end. A county judge ordered the fraudster to spend every weekend in jail until the entire fraud was repaid. It took about three weeks for the matter to be resolved.
In a Senate hearing on a proposed workfare program aired on PBS in the late 1970s, Senator Hubert Humphrey made the comment that, since Americans are not a people to allow their neighbors to starve, we might as well have clean streets as dirty ones. It made sense then and it would make sense again.
Absoulutley David, why the hell prisoners do not work and work hard to benifit the society they have damaged is frickin beyond me.
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]I was personally aware of three outright fraud cases one of which I followed to its rightful end. A county judge ordered the fraudster to spend every weekend in jail until the entire fraud was repaid. It took about three weeks for the matter to be resolved.[quote]
My point is that society as a whole is responsible for rooting out thiose who take advantage. When a citizen suspects fraud they should report it so that the case worker has spe4cifics to work with. It isn’t the easiest thing to find fraud when it can be concealed in many different ways.
When someone is on disability because they claim a back injury and someone reports that they are out playing golf it would make it much easier to prove fraud. A video of the action makes it hard to refute.
[quote=”2bncr”]Absoulutley David, why the hell prisoners do not work and work hard to benifit the society they have damaged is frickin beyond me.[/quote]
I understand your sentiment perfectly, 2bn. The problem arises not from the penal system or from the inmates themselves but from the public economic sector. In simple terms, the local businesspeople don’t want the competition of low-cost inmate labor and inmate-made products. Prison industries all over the country have been forced to shut down because, while they produced useful, high-quality and needed products, the local business community was thereby shut out.
In Michigan, the Michigan Prison Industries program used to make office furniture for state government use. Some of it was in service for decades and functioned just fine. Then the private sector got wind of it and exerted its political influence to have that competition removed. MPI used to make shoes, clothing, raise crops and farm animals, and do or make other useful things but the political pressure shut them down.
Now, prison industries are contracting inmate labor to private sector enterprises from within the walls. You might be surprised to learn whom you’re talking to when you call a customer service number, but of course that, too, takes a potential job away from someone on the outside.
Amazing! Does the madness ever stop! You know how much some states pay to house inmates? I wonder why we cant make things pay for themselves. All my life I set things up to pay for themselves and then when it gets going add a little more. Look taxpayers pay for the prisions so why should they not run themselves and turn a profit, At least the inmates will have job skills and feel more compitent about surviving outside.
I wonder if we should not be looking to the China model about goverment and business in bed together. Big greedy business is screwing everything up by pressing their advantage inhumanely.
Sadly, it’s not so amazing at all. Businesses, in order to maximize their profits, suppress competition when they can. In the case of inmate labor, they argue that the competition is unfair, and there’s some validity to that argument, isn’t there?
Imagine that you’re in the buggy whip business. Your buggy whips cost $3 to produce — $1.50 for materials and $1.50 for labor. The local prison can produce an equally good buggy whip, using inmate labor, for $2.00 — $1.50 for materials and $.50 for inmate labor. Who’s getting hosed in this deal? You are.
And so you complain noting that not only are you losing business (read: “profits”) but your local community is losing the jobs of the employees you can’t afford to pay and the taxes your enterprise supports.
There’s an argument there, no?
Not in a free and sane world there isn’t.
Look laws are made to support peoples position inthe world. Many destroy freedom and are completely insane, They are inventions of man. Its a rigged game. That why I have such a hard time with law enforcement because if police enforce the letter of the law – people would be in jail for all kinds of natural actions. Its the laws of man and not the laws of god that the police follow but when you follow the written rule without an element of humanity you are apply law inhumanely. Those that enforce the law need to be humane. Unfortunately, there are thick headed brutes that cannot think for themselves enforcing many unatural laws. Drug use is one. Prostitution is another. Unfair taxation another,
its a crazy world designed to support the people that make the laws. There is nothing Just about justice in the eyes of the law.
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