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A question for our VIP Members …
There is – again – talk of building an interoceanic canal in Nicaragua and I am always amazed that the only thing that our commentators seem to worry about with the Panama canal and, the remote possibility of a Nicaragua canal are the numbers….
Typically they are debating the dollars required to build or in Panama’s case, to expand the canal…
Why does nobody speak of the environmental costs?
Am I environmentally oversensitive or something?
From what I read, it would appear that nearly 200 million Liters ([b]52 million gallons[/b]) of fresh water are used for [i]every ship[/i] that transits through the Panama Canal from one ocean to another….
Does this not have an ENORMOUS effect on our environment?
Would love to hear your opinion, especially you ‘Pharg’
Scott
Scott, this has been on my radar for at least a year now, my understanding of what’s going on is that it’s financed in part by both Chavez and Iran in case the US puts pressure on the Panamanians to not allow those countries to pass through “their” canal with goods and oil.
Needless to say, the Nicaraguan government is not buddies with us/US, so it seemed natural to build it there. I hear nothing about it in our MSM, least of all the environmental impact. You can ask 100 US citizens and maybe 3 would know it’s even happening. I look forward to hearing this group weigh in on it.
BBG
[quote=”Scott”]
Why does nobody speak of the environmental costs?Am I environmentally oversensitive or something?
From what I read, it would appear that nearly 200 million Liters ([b]52 million gallons[/b]) of fresh water are used for [i]every ship[/i] that transits through the Panama Canal from one ocean to another…. [/quote]
Since most of the Panama Canal is traversed through natural rivers that are headed to the oceans in any case the loss of fresh water is not a major issue.
[quote=”Scott”]
Does this not have an ENORMOUS effect on our environment?[/quote]
Either case would have an local exvironmental impact. A new canal in Nicaragua would have an enormously greaater impact than expanding Panama.
The mountains in Nicaragua are higher and would require more locks to raise the ships in both directions. Neither Iran nor Venezuela seem to have much concern for the environment.Scott:
you ARE way more intelligent than this
read
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal
pay CLOSE attention to this Phrase:
Water issues
Gatun locks showing the “mule” locomotives at workGatun Lake is filled with rainwater, and the lake accumulates excess water during wet months. The water is lost to the oceans at a rate of 101,000 m3 (26,700,000 US gal; 22,200,000 imp gal) per downward lock-cycle. Since a ship will have to go upward to Lake Gatun first and then descend, a single passing will cost double the amount; but the same waterflow cycle can be used for another ship passing in the opposite direction. The ship’s submerged volume is not relevant to this amount of water. During the dry season, when there is less rainfall, there is also a shortfall of water in Gatun Lake.I won’t comment on the general environmental impact of a new canal zone….but I am sure it would be wretched. What I can say is that cruise ships are HUGE poster kids for environmental degradation of the oceans. I won’t go into the statistics here, too many sites would offer those…but these things are awful for the oceans. Water use, sewage drops in the open oceans, noxious chemicals…and the list goes on. And they are getting bigger and bigger and bigger.
And let’s not even START on the “culture of food” on these things………yech!
Roger;
Here in FL you cannot use any fertilizer during the rainy season, WHY???
these fertilizers use NITROGEN and when it rains it spills into the water sewers wich in turn discharge into rivers
And they create ALGEA in the rivers. It Clouds the top of the river and stops the OXIGEN at the bottom, fish, turtles, and all water animals who live under will DIE
Does a NEW canal have a negative impact in the environmental of Nicaragua, only the same as in Panama
Will it happen in Nicaragua??? NOT IN 100 YEARS!!!
PS: Scott: STOP editing my posts, If you do it to ME!!! you do it to others and it ain’t FUNNY
[quote=”aguirrewar”]Roger;
PS: Scott: STOP editing my posts, If you do it to ME!!! you do it to others and it ain’t FUNNY[/quote]
I – and the other Moderators – will edit any post we feel requires editing and when you start going on about about the trash you come across in Costa Rica when the thread is clearly about the possible Nicaragua and Panama canal, I’ll delete it.
Scott
PS. I agree it probably would not happen in Nicaragua in 100 years …
PPS. We do occasionally edit other posts but you could not possibly know that, could you….
[b]THIS RESPONSE IS NOT FROM SCOTT, IT’S FROM “Pharg” AN OCEANOGRAPHIC UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR IN THE U.S.
[/b]This project has been proposed since the mid 1500s; the U.S. got into the game in the 1890s and finagled a 99 year lease on Nicaragua’s Corn islands (wonder how that’s going?).
But politics got involved, the U.S. was instrumental in establishment of Panama (carry a big stick, Teddy), Nicaragua was aced out the picture by Congress because the picture of a volcano on a Nico postage stamp was used as evidence that the country was geologically unstable.
So the Big Dig was in Panama. Fast forward to the 1950s – because there are 6 sets of rapids on the San Juan River to either remove or bypass with locks, the problem solvers would use atomic bombs to clear the route. (Someone say environmental damage?).
The many sandbars would not be a problem, just dump the sediment on the C.R. side. (If this comes to pass, that would be a fine source of material to fix Sra. Chinchilla’s washed away new road up there!).
There were 5 different possible routes proposed to go from Lake Nicaragua to the Pacific.
So, it’s popped up again. More recently the Russians were going to provide funding, but they backed out; then Chavez (he wanted to run a parallel oil pipeline to open up Pacific customers).
Now Iran might be interested. Can North Korea be far behind? (or more likely, China). Where is the Monroe Doctrine when you need it?
There was marine biological disruption when the Panama Canal opened up, with Caribbean species migrating to the Pacific and vice versa.
A new canal probably would not increase much in that area, after 100+ years, as the ecological disruption seems to have stabilized.
It’s difficult to anticipate the problems arising from ballast water transfer. Much of the water falling from the clouds ends up running into the ocean anyway (the hydrologic cycle).
Dumping ballast water, whether fresh or salt, might have a local effect but not much more. And again, the Panama Canal has been a model – transfer of species has stabilized, so probably only local effects. Sediment runoff, of which there would be a lot, is another matter.
Pollution? Not so much when you consider what’s already defiling coastal waters (think: Rio Tarcoles for example).
But I’m thinking there would be considerably more environmental damage on the land end of things, not only forest destruction, river sedimentation, and habitat fragmentation – all of which would lead to substantial loss of biodiversity and local extinction of many species….and consequently more of the same via “development”.
No worries, mates – until someone comes up with the billions of $$$ to finance the project (or Yuan; China again?)
In yesterday’s Guardian newspaper it was announced that:
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nicaragua-china-panama-canal]Nicaragua gives Chinese firm contract to build alternative to Panama Canal[/url]“Nicaragua has awarded a Chinese company a 100-year concession to build an alternative to the Panama Canal, in a step that looks set to have profound geopolitical ramifications.
The president of the country’s national assembly, Rene Nuñez, announced the $40bn (£26bn) project, which will reinforce Beijing’s growing influence on global trade and weaken US dominance over the key shipping route between the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.”
This could be a good thing for the country
I tell you if they can just get their act together Nicaragua can most definitely give costa rica a run for its money.
alot of things here meaning people wanting to retire here are just taken for granted
[quote=”Scott”]In yesterday’s Guardian newspaper it was announced that:
[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nicaragua-china-panama-canal]Nicaragua gives Chinese firm contract to build alternative to Panama Canal[/url]“Nicaragua has awarded a Chinese company a 100-year concession to build an alternative to the Panama Canal, in a step that looks set to have profound geopolitical ramifications.
The president of the country’s national assembly, Rene Nuñez, announced the $40bn (£26bn) project, which will reinforce Beijing’s growing influence on global trade and weaken US dominance over the key shipping route between the Pacific and Atlantic oceans.”
[/quote]
[quote=”Scott”][quote=”aguirrewar”]Roger;
PS: Scott: STOP editing my posts, If you do it to ME!!! you do it to others and it ain’t FUNNY[/quote]
I – and the other Moderators – will edit any post we feel requires editing and when you start going on about about the trash you come across in Costa Rica when the thread is clearly about the possible Nicaragua and Panama canal, I’ll delete it.
Scott
PS. I agree it probably would not happen in Nicaragua in 100 years …
PPS. We do occasionally edit other posts but you could not possibly know that, could you….
[/quote]Scott I find it appalling when you and your band of moderators edit peoples post when they don’t agree with your views. If a post is obscene and out of line I would agree with you. But just to play moderator police just because they don’t conform to your beleifs is total censorship.[quote=”ddspell12″][quote=”Scott”][quote=”aguirrewar”]Roger;
PS: Scott: STOP editing my posts, If you do it to ME!!! you do it to others and it ain’t FUNNY[/quote]
I – and the other Moderators – will edit any post we feel requires editing and when you start going on about about the trash you come across in Costa Rica when the thread is clearly about the possible Nicaragua and Panama canal, I’ll delete it.
Scott
PS. I agree it probably would not happen in Nicaragua in 100 years …
PPS. We do occasionally edit other posts but you could not possibly know that, could you….
[/quote]Scott I find it appalling when you and your band of moderators edit peoples post when they don’t agree with your views. If a post is obscene and out of line I would agree with you. But just to play moderator police just because they don’t conform to your beleifs is total censorship.[/quote]For the record – I am one of Scott’s moderators and I have never modified or deleted a post, any posts!
I may offer my comments or opinion about your post or debate what you say, but thus far I have not found it necessary to “moderate”. As far as I know, there is only one other “moderator” and I think he is prone to sit on the sidelines as am I. What Scott decides to do is his decision – after all, it is HIS website & forum!I think that this is a done deal. The Chinese have trillions of soon to be devalued Dollars, so mind as well use them to buy lower priced manipulated gold and invest in prestige projects like the Nicaragua Canal Project. Will there be environmental damage? Sure, but so what. This is the price of progress.
The big question of course will be whether the Nicas will really profit from this as the Chinese will control both sides of the Pacific and Caribbean. Furthermore, when you control the debt of a nation, you control everything. On the other hand, with the Canal Project taking 10 years, a lot can happen.
Of significance is that once it was the United States who led the world in such endeavors. Now it is China.I think that the only done deal was getting the approval passed in the Sandinista controled congress. Maybe we should call the project the “Sandinista Piñata Deal #2” Only Daniel, Rosario and friends will see any benefit from this and the pueblo will be holding the bag and fleeing to CR looking for work as usual. Let’s get real! The HK Nicaragua Canal Development Investment Co. has no capital, has to raise $40B from investors, has never built anything, has to face very difficult logistical, political and ecological problems. Maybe CR can convince their good “friends” in Beijing to put a stop to this farce (fraud). I just can’t see it happening. Just my opinion.
[quote=”orcas0606″][quote=”johnnyh”]I think that this is a done deal. The Chinese have trillions of soon to be devalued Dollars, so mind as well use them to buy lower priced manipulated gold and invest in prestige projects like the Nicaragua Canal Project. Will there be environmental damage? Sure, but so what. This is the price of progress.
The big question of course will be whether the Nicas will really profit from this as the Chinese will control both sides of the Pacific and Caribbean. Furthermore, when you control the debt of a nation, you control everything. On the other hand, with the Canal Project taking 10 years, a lot can happen.
Of significance is that once it was the United States who led the world in such endeavors. Now it is China.[/quote][/quote]From: [url=http://www.centralamericadata.com/en/article/main/Nicaragua_Brilliant_and_Enormous_Bid_by_China?]Nicaragua: Brilliant and Enormous Bid by China[/url]
“The delivery of a 100 year concession award for an Inter-oceanic Canal to a company without the capital or experience to carry out a project of this magnitude could be the result of a brilliant long-term operation by the Chinese government.”
See more at: [ http://www.centralamericadata.com/en/article/main/Nicaragua_Brilliant_and_Enormous_Bid_by_China? ]
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