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In all the confusion over what the “insult” in Scott’s “retort” was, I think there is an interesting discussion in bettybryan’s original question.
Ms. Bryan, please do not take this as an insult… I just do not see how Scott insulted you and after many trips to CR (in hopes of starting a business there and moving in the future myself) I have to agree with his posting.
That said, I have to say that I wondered the same thing in my first time or two down there.
My interest was based on the supposed “machismo” culture among the latino tradition, and the understanding that there was a lot of ‘domestic violence’ etc. I understood that the base culture was a matriarchal society and wondered how the women in charge of the familias would tolerate such treatment.
My questions also arose because I live in an area where the Mexican influence is rapidly changing our local culture due to the rapid influx of un-educated and un-skilled illegals, and I did not YET understand that there can be an ENORMOUS difference in Mexican machismo and CR machismo traditions.
What I found was contradictory on my first trip and I asked a whole lot of folks about it.
What I learned (and observed as well) is that talking the macho talk and walking the macho walk are two very different things.
Four things:
1) I have observed Ticos sounding like construction workers whooping it up amongst themselves, contributing completely towards the machismo reputation – as potent as any locker room talk in the USA. Then the very same men would hold the door open, speak reverently about women, and respectfully treat women when face to face. The same is unfortunately no longer true (in my experience and opinion much to my dismay and embarrassment) anymore in the USA. Funny thing is, these men are so amazingly docile and non-confrontational in regular life, which makes point number 2 really interesting.
2) I do believe that there is domestic violence and verbal abuse which goes HEAVILY UNDER REPORTED in CR – especially in the lower classes. Many of these women are quite smart, but have no confidence, education, or knowledge of female independence, and therefore have no way to feel empowered to do anything about it. A 28-year old woman hotel owner friend of mine (a total feminist as well) employs twice the part timers as needed (as opposed to half as many full timers) in order to empower and teach more women more things. She explained once to me how utterly ‘amazed’ her female employees are that there were so many women who would travel ALONE W/O THIER MEN while on vacation!!! When my friend would explain that women CAN be successful and independent and still have wonderful husbands, the look of interest and dis-belief is itself was encouraging and amazing. She has taken it upon herself to help these women learn how to operate computers, handle hotel operations, learn English, etc.
3) I asked my late 20’s WOMAN Tica dentist about this as well. My queery with her was ‘how does the average Tico accept her professional credentials in such a macho society.’ We yacked for 2 hours about the issue and she convinced me that both of the above are true and that the following is as well. The informed population (fewer in the rural areas for sure but please do not infer any anti-hickism or anything like that) is very suppoortive of women getting education, college degree, and professional success in the culture of CR and in the global economy. Her success in the field of dentistry was not a surprise or an exception in her family or school culture and I found her attitudes about it much more mature than young women in the USA. My Tica friend seemd to understand that CR has changed in a few decades in this issue and appreciated the difference, whereas I suggest that more USA women take the work of the feminists of the 60’s and 70’s for granted and really don’t get it.
4) The articles you will read about the natural beauty and more intense sexuality Ticas possess in comparison to other culture’s women (I feel) are dead on the money!!! Tica’s have the power and they know it. They are not bashful about it either. (This makes me wonder about point number 2 as well since it seems contradictory.)
So as far as being a second class citizen? I would characterize it in some other way other than 1st or 2nd or 3rd class. Different? Sure. Like Scott suggested, I feel that your knowledge and communication skills will bring much more credibilty and respect than whether you are a woman or a man. And a positive, gracious, and happy disposition along with a vocabulary full of por favor, gracias, tuanis, pura vida, mucho gusto, and smiles will go a long way… much further than worrying about class distinctions. I think your presence and help offered to women who need it will be welcomed in CR, but success will come indifferent ways than activism did in the USA 40 years ago.
This ain’t USA, and it sure is NOT Mexico… It’s like a whole other country! I am sure that if you have a love of people, you will love CR and its people.
Jim
It is time to put an end to this. A simple question has gotten blown out of proportion. I am not some ogre coming to Costa Rica to change them or things nor do I have any wish to. I read on the internet that my husband and only my husband could apply for Residency (My concept of a step toward Citizenship), and then I read a chapter in Costa Rica The Last Country The Gods Made page 137, Women Under Tico Paternalism. I was an Equal Opportunity Specialist, enforcing civil rights laws for 15 years. I wondered if I was being hypocritical in considering going where the laws did not give women equal opportunity. Yes the laws in the US give women equal opportunity but they still do not receive equal pay. I admire what Costa Rica has evolved into. I have always stood for people being allowed to be who they are. I worked with a very poor community to get a community center that they wanted, not some other project that officials wanted to subject them to. I worked with a community that lost its economic base when the mines closed and we brought new industry, jobs and training. I have been the president of a construction company; president of a development company; and owner of other businesses. I have been a feature story writer and named Presswoman of the Year. I have been named Toastmaster of the Year, and more. Most of all, I am the mother of seven children, all college educated and successful, nineteen grandchildren, and eight great-grandchildren. I am sorry if I have caused you to misjudge and bruised your egos. When I come to Costa Rico, I will seek out a small village or city with very few foreigners, such as you. I will become a part of the community, going to church, helping and learning their customs at gatherings, festivals, etc. After all I am 81 years young and I intend to relax and enjoy genuine people.
I feel sorry for the little village with the very few foreigners this obnoxious bragging woman wants to move to. I would have taken Susan Anthony any time if she would still be alive!!!
Ms. Bryan, your resume’ is quite impressive. I am sure that in your 81 years that you have come across MANY different personalities, and with your background that you would have handled these encounters in a professional manner. It seems that you keep adding fuel to the fire! I would hope that you have taken the time to read ALL the other posts on this forum and you will find alot of valued information. I know I have. While I may not agree with everything that is said, I would certainly NOT insult anyone. As in my prior post SMILE !!! life is too short!
QTIP (quit taking it personally)
DebbieIt seems there has been a few misunderstandings here from the original post to several that followed it. Maybe if we would concentrate on the what the information is in this area we would all be more informed.
In the interest of getting back to the subject area of the original post here is information on just one book(I’m sure there is more) I found regarding the womens movement and the wonderful contribution of women in Costa Rica:
The Costa Rican Women’s Movement: A Reader (Pitt Latin American Series) (Paperback)
by Ilse Abshagen Leitinger (Editor), Abshagen Ilse Leitinger (Editor)Editorial Reviews
Midwest Book Review
The Costa Rican Women’s Movement: A Reader provides an insider’s view of the women’s movement in one small but quintessential Latin American society. It collects the voices of forty-one diverse women (some radical, others strongly conservative, and most ranging in between) as they write about their lives and their experiences working for change within the Costa Rican community. Their voices resonate with those involved in the women’s movement worldwide and provide invaluable first-hand accounts for students in women’s studies courses. The articles are arranged thematically and include definitions of feminism in Costa Rica, women in Costa Rican history, legal equality, discrimination, women in the arts, and the status of women’s studies. Brief biographies of each author underscore the leadership of Costa Rican women in Latin American feminism. The founders and editors of Mujer, one of the most influential feminist journals in Latin America, are among the authors represented here. The Costa Rican Women’s Movement: A Reader is an invaluable addition to the growing body of international feminist literature and history.
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Product Details
Paperback: 368 pages
Publisher: University of Pittsburgh Press (April 1997)
Language: English
ISBN: 0822955431http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0822955431/103-8306099-8795839?n=283155
————————-It is my understanding that native born women in Costa Rica are very much full citizens equal in status to native born men citizens. It is interesting that a new vice president is a woman.
It is also my understanding that women in Costa Rica can retain their maiden names after they marry unlike most countries. Do most Tico women retain their maiden names?
PHENOMENALLY useful feedback Michael – thank you
Don’t know if you guys saw this in La Nacion – I have just added it to the site:
“For the first time ever, women will be the speakers for the leading parties in the Legislative Assembly.
The party that will rule for the next four years, National Liberation, will be lead in Congress by Mayi Antillon, who sees new times coming to the legislature now that women will be in charge of the negotiations between parties.
The major opposition party, Citizen Action, has Elizabeth Fonseca as its leader, while the other two main forces, Libertarian and Christian Unity, have Evita Arguedas and Lorena Vasquez, respectively, as their leaders. The four agree that women’s ability for dialogue and understanding will be the major assets of the leaders of the next legislature.”
Scott Oliver
Betty:
Costa RicA (with an “A”).
Puerto RicO (with an “O”) is an island in the Caribean, and the free associate state of US.
We are and independent Republic….
On the subject that confused you from the get go. The reason why it is stated that men can apply for residency and their wives will be their “dependants”, is only because normally it is the husband who has the out of home job.
If the situation is the opposite, the lady’s application will have her husband as the “dependant” which will be processed without a hint of discrimmination.
Betty,
I understand your concern about being a second class citizen regarding your gender.
I am a Gringo married to a Costa Rican and Costa Rica is a normal latin country! It is not the United States! How ever when it comes to womens rights Costa Rica is the leading country in Central America.
They are improving womens rights every year, but don’t expect their thought process about womens rights to be the same as the yours. Every one can have different view points about that issue and what it means. If you don’t like the macho culture of latine america this might not be the countrie of your choice. Regarding women being citzens I no my mother inlaw and wife would tell you they are as much ticas as their father or brothers were! hahaha.Betty,
Consider the beauty, gentleness and civility of CR, you’ll find it. Likewise expect oppression and it’ll be waiting for you at the bagage claim on arrival.Regardless where you end up, whatever expectations you have will likely manefest for you. So why not? Cheer up…. Live a little… You’ve earned it…
Pura Vida….
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