- This topic has 1 reply, 8 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 9 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Scott you are doing your readers a disservice by giving them even the slightest inclination that the Colegio de Abogados is protecting them by policing their own.
The Colegio does a tremendous Dis-service by not enforcing harsh penalties on the many CRIMINAL lawyers that “work” in Costa Rica. That list you featured is a placebo to cover up the real problems of probably thousand of crooked attorney in CR. The list does not even begin to scratch the tip of the tip of the iceberg.
Below is an article regarding the Colegio and how it’s passive aggressive actions promote corruption.
Toothless criminal system
lets fraudsters operateIn California, you do not have to be an attorney or a notary to present documents to the county registrar. In California, the county registrar does not inspect documents other than making sure signatures are not photocopies (They do a smear test on ink to see if it’s an original). If documents are signed, by anybody, it is not until those documents are challenged and the district attorney has filed a criminal case that the title becomes clouded (imperfect).
However, if you forge documents and/or cause damage, you will go to jail. That’s a given, and that’s the difference.
The toothless Costa Rica criminal system and the lack of swift disbarment from the Colegio de Abogados (the equivalent of the Costa Rica bar association) have created the problem with the registry. Why, you ask? Because notaries know that if they claim their protocol book (notary book) was stolen, they are always given the benefit of the doubt in court, unless the co-criminal that colluded with the notary stands trial. If there is no co-criminal at the trial or the notary acted alone, he will always walk free.
I am uniquely qualified to write this as I have gone through the ordeal of trying to convict a notary, whose notary book was allegedly stolen, resulting in my property being fraudulently transferred to a snowcone salesman (who disappeared) and then being sold. And if not for my attorney’s diligence and passion, I probably would have lost.
If notaries know they will walk free, they are embolden to make a living on property fraud. Thus they look to the registry to find connections that will create other loopholes that the wolf (attorney) who is watching the hen house (Costa Rica legal system) can get away with.
The crux of the problem is the Colegio de Abogados policing their own. I believe they have a rule that says a notary has 72 hours to report his notary book missing. The missing notary book in my case resulted in scores of fraud cases overloading the criminal system. And guess who makes probably millions of dollars servicing these cases — attorneys. So, do the Colegio de Abogados and the Costa Rica government want to kill the goose that lays both the fraudulent and the ethical attorneys’ golden egg — I wonder, since they are the proverbial goose.
The answer is quite simple. The Colegio of Abogados and the civil code need to change:
First, a change in the civil code that makes it a crime not to report a notary book stolen within the prescribed time. If the notary does not report the book stolen, he needs to be charged with criminal negligence and have civil liability regarding fraud committed using his stolen notary book.
Second, the Colegio de Abogados needs to start enforcing its ethics and disbarring crooked notaries for life. Next, there needs to be affiliations that an attorney can join which allow consumers to determine if a notary is a specialist in good standing. These affiliations can withdraw the notary’s endorsement and act as quality control, an arm of the Colegio de Abogados.
Until there is some action regarding the laws and regulations, you cannot expect the problem to be corrected by suspending the head of the registry. More likely, it is a smoke screen used to cover the real culprit — the Colegio de Abogados and the civil and criminal code created by the Costa Rican government, both parties headed by the same professionals partial to collecting golden eggs. They collected a lot of mine, along with my stomach-lining, hairline, personal and family upheaval from a four-year lawsuit. Your eggs may be next!
Well it’s certainly not a joke Diego and obviously can offer some protection to someone who may have been about to do business with an attorney with a ‘questionable’ background but, we appreciate the very constructive suggestions you have and can only hope that ‘someone’ out there is listening to you …
Would you like to expand on your story and how our VIP Members could learn from your experience and we can turn it into an article?
Please email me privately if you would like to do so …
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comAt the risk of raising the ire of ScottBenson who thinks that no foreigner should butt into CR internal affairs, I would have to agree with Diego that many reforms are needed. Attorneys have essentially “cornered the market” in Costa Rica. You can’t sell a car without an attorney, and you have to be an attorney to be a notary. None of these requirements seem to decrease fraud.
This is why many people recommend you use two attorneys, one to do the work, and that other to watch over him or her. Just make sure they didn’t go to school together.
This is not to say that there aren’t honest attorneys in CR, there are many. But the Códogos are so full of contradictory terms and loopholes that it is easy for those “in the know” to maneuver around them, sometimes in a malicious fashion.
However, many of the reforms needed are constitutional in nature, and amending the Constitution is quite a bit more difficult than changing a Código, or an administrative rule.
I think scottbenson would be inscensed to learn that there are crooked costa ricans. There’s no such thing, it must be foreigners doing these.
And another thing, these foreigners are stealing these con jobs from the ticos.And here I thought I was the only one who had these feelings about scottbenson. I knew I wasn’t that smart it’s refreshing to read others see and feel as I do on here.
Although it makes me sad and scared to learn about this type of injustice anywhere. I know one thing for sure as I am sure so do most of you a few bad apples and imperfection is expected everywhere. While this may exist in Costa Rica it shouldn’t be a black eye to the entire country or their entire system. But I am glad to learn about these facts to know what I need to beware of and protect my investmenst and myself from. Thanks for keeping this focused on facts with a small diversion.
For the Record I love Gringoticos posts and Kimyoa650 too they have always been informative and with the best of intentions. Kudos both of you. diego special KUDOS for you great post thanks for sharing
Edited on Jan 26, 2007 18:23
Boy… you guys stired up a hornets nest tonight…hahahah
So by reading these posts, correct me if I am wrong! Some people on this post belive that things need to be changed at the Colegio de Abogados?
Do you think that the expats of Costa Rica should get involved with a movement to creat such a change?
Do you belive that if they are not citizens of Costa Rica that they have the right to protest or make these kind of changes?
What do you think the ticos would say if they had a picture of Gringos walking down the central with signs stating injustes?
Now I will ask my mother in-law, My wife, and her friends tico friends.
I will post what they would say!!
Hello Scott, didn’t mean to talk about you behind your back (ok, I guess I did).
You’re absolutely right that we all need to watch our tongue when we’re away from our home country. I think that most people on this forum recognize that we can’t expect things to be done the “American Way” outside the U.S., but it’s not a bad thing to continually point this out.
However, when you have a stake in something, you gain the right to have a say in it as well. When you own a home, you pay taxes and utility bills, and your quality of life and the value of your investment depend upon what happens in the neighborhood around you, as well as the country as a whole. It would be silly to think that you should never voice your concern just because you’re foreign-born. Arnold Schwarzenegger certainly would beg to differ.
When you own a business in Costa Rica, or have Tico children, you have even greater reason to become more “politically” involved.
Your idea of a band of demonstrating Gringos is funny though. That certainly wouldn’t do. However, there are plenty of formal organizations made up of ExPats which quietly work to influence life in Tiquicia, such as the Association of Residents, as well as the many foreign Chambers of Commerce.
There are many ways of doing things in CR that we can learn from here in the U.S. to our great benefit. The reverse is also true. It would be a crime to try to halt this process.
Be humble and respectful, yes. Sit idly by and watch bad things happen to your home, family and business without raising a finger, I don’t think so.
Yes, GringoTico you are right about not sitting idle, how ever there is a line that most ticos would agree that should not be crossed. One is if you do have a biz in CR that doesn’t give you the right to try to change things such as government intervention.
When I asked my wife these questions it was funny the response. She said that the people have a right to speak just because they are a democratic society. How ever the Ticos would think they are just the dumb hippy gringos trying to change the world! The point to where the line would be if the gringos started to make a impact on the Ticos.
How ever the Gringos are a different culture and to think that trying to change the Tico government to what the gringos think is best won’t fly. The Ticos themselves have to change the system if they think that it needs to be changed. Yes expat associations do try to voice their concerns and the government will listen how ever they will not let the expats impact the way government governs. Look at what the changes have occurred in the last legislation. Even though they changed the wording they also made it tougher on illegal tourist working in CR and the penalties stiffer if they over stay the visa.
I am sure we can all tell stories of the crazy gringos that come to Costa Rica and think it is Miami or something and gets upset at the Tico clerk because they can’t understand what the crazy grigo is saying. (I personally have seen a crazy gringa go off on a tico at Multiplaza because he didn’t understand what duck sauce was) Well when the crazy gringos walk away the ticos say puto gringo! This is some what the same situation, if they crazy gringos start medaling in the system the Tico will walk away saying puto gringo who do they think they are! Which I can safely say I understand why they say it.
Regarding the cedula I understand what you are saying, I have to say it is a crazy system. How ever Costa Ricans have been using this system for a long time and if they want to change it so be! I know how much power a attorney has but they don’t have as much power as the U.S. political system or as corrupt! Have you ever seen a U.S. judge getting sued? I would much rather pay a Tico attorney than 300 dollars a hour for a gringo attorney!
Edited on Jan 28, 2007 12:48
Scott B,
Gringos have been an important part of Costa Rican financing and don’t forget who protects Costa Rica, Do you remember who? Yes that’s right, it Uncle Sam and it’s on our dime. Like it or not – that gives Gringos some say as we insure the peace that Costa Rica has enjoyed for many years. However, you will not find me endorsing US culture. I love Tico culture but the attorney thing there is completely out of hand. US attorneys are more expensive but when you take the cost of living into account I think its about the same and you usually get results and attention. Not the take the money and never take your phone call treatment. Its out and out thivery.
Furthermore, permanent residents have a legitimate stake in CR and so do those who invest millions upon millions of Dollars – not colonies – in CR.
Also, CR government is the most inefficient inept government in the region if not the hemisphere (that is one of the reasons I like it here), only Mexico runs a close second.
Who runs the Government? – mostly attorney that can’t make money being attorneys. Does that tell you something? I personally hope the Ticos do not change the entire system, but if you ever have fraud perpetrated against you and you have hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake, I am sure you will change your tune in a New York minute.
Freudian slip perhaps saying that the US invests in dollars and not “colonies.”
The US has armed forces in over 100 countries and “protects” them too… Or would they prefer them to be “colonies?”
And the US government has proven to be so efficient and not corrupt in any way ???? And wasn’t Bill Clinton an attorney?
Anybody read ‘Economic Hit Man’?
“In his book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man he describes how as a highly paid professional, he helped the U.S. cheat poor countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars by lending them more money than they could possibly repay and then take over their economies.”
Sad truth is US does invest is colonies and since it picks up the bill for protecting the colonies it is entitled to some reward. Police get paid everywhere and nobody likes them, but who do you run to when there is a problem, the police. Except in CR because they are ill trained and well underpaid thus unmotivated (except the OIJ).
I am not touting the way things are, but I am aware enough not to argue with reality. And when I do I only lose about 100% of the time.
Bradbard I wish it was differnt. But it is what it is, hiding ones head in the sand does no good.
Systems are sytems and the players that make the rules of the game have ability to abuse those rules. Its up to people that have had experience with the abuse to tell others about it so hopefully they will not suffer the same abuse.
I’m a little confused here. Scottbenson…..you are basically saying corrupt tico attorney’s is part of Tico culture and we don’t have the right to say that should be changed. To that I say, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. I don’t care if you are married to a Tica and have all the exteneded family in the world that are Tico’s willing to offer their opinion of Gringos and the way Gringo’s do things. If we are victims of any type of Tico corruption we have every right to not only question it, but every right to demand things change. That is not demanding that Tico’s change their culture. If Tico’s think corruption is part of their culture are accept it then they have bigger problems than worrying that a Gringo is going to come down here and turn them into little Gringos. The lack of reform in this country may very well eventually be it’s economic downfall. It’s not a booming stable economy as it is. Take the foreign dollars out of Costa Rica and you basically have any other Central American country, with much less progress than Costa Rica has experienced in the last 30 years.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
