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[quote=”maravilla”]the typical dose for atropine is 0.25 cc per 10 kilos. [/quote]
Atropine comes in several dilutions. Perhaps, mg/kg is a safer way to go. Maximal dose is 2mg/kg.
See
http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/atropine/page1.aspxthe problem with that formula is that you need the injectable solution, and the syringes here in costa rica are measured in ml. i have two different syringes — one goes up to 5 ml, so trying to dose .25 cc is very little comparied to what the syringe will hold. the other syringe is 1.0 ml and is graded in tenths. an mg dose would be if you were giving tablets, no?
Here is how it is calculated in Medicine (I am not a vet):
Atropine is available in 15 mg/ml
Maximal dose is 2mg/kg
For a dog of let’s say of 15 kg you should NOT use more than
30mg (2×15) of atropine which is 2ml of 15mg/ml solution.
However, I will check with my vet friends to double check this.
Also, some articles suggest propranolol(Inderal)
as an option.
VZMy dog loves these toads. We use “club soda” on a cloth and clean the dogs gums and tongue, then rinse with water. We do this a couple of times. Stops the foaming right away and in a few minutes the dog is back to normal.
One more thing. The chance of death is relatively low – 4% if you have a vet hospital nearby.
Similar American study showed the same resultsSee:
A retrospective report of 90 dogs with suspected cane toad (Bufo marinus) toxicity.
Reeves MP.
SourceQueensland Veterinary Specialists, 263 Appleby Road, Stafford Heights, Queensland 4053.
Abstract
OBJECTIVE:To report the clinical characteristics of toad toxicity in domestic dogs in Brisbane.
DESIGN:A retrospective analysis of clinical cases.
PROCEDURE:All cases of toad poisoning which presented to a northern suburbs emergency clinic in Brisbane over a 30-month period beginning in April 1999 were reviewed.
RESULTS:A total of 90 canine cases of suspected toad poisoning were reviewed. Small breed dogs accounted for 76% of cases. Jack Russell, Silky, and Fox Terriers were the most represented breeds. Cases were reported year round, with fewest cases over the winter months. The most common clinical signs were increased salivation (78% of cases), and red oral mucous membranes (63% cases). Seizures occurred in 31% of cases. Generally the outcome was excellent with 96% survival.
you had better hope your dog gets a Bufo during business hours because finding a vet after hours or on weekends in Costa Rica is nearly impossible. the doses i quoted in a previous post came from the local vet who has treated many dogs for Bufo contact. i don{t really care what the above study says — if your dog comes in contact with a Bufo it’s likely you don’t live in the city, and if you don’t live in the city, forget the emergency vet hospital. i know two people who lost small dogs to Bufo contact. Had we not had the atropine for my neighbor’s dog this weekend, it surely would’ve died. in that case, it was a Friday night, on a holiday weekend. We called several vets. HA! They were all on vacation. Besides, we are 20 minutes from the nearest vet in the closest town. Not exactly easy access. If you live in the campo in costa rica, most vets will recommend that you have a syringe on hand just in case! And guess what? My neighbor had not a clue what to do to help her dog! She watched it foam at the mouth, then rinsed the mouth with water, then gave the dog food! It was only after the dog got worse that she called me and we acted as quickly as we could.
After following this thread, checked with my vet for instructions/atropine. She nixed that saying that Inderol was now the suggested treatment. This is actually a heart medication.
So here is what she suggested: Keep club soda liters on hand and after bufo contact, thoroughly wash the tongue and mouth with club soda which neutralizes the poison. Then if the dog begins to convulse administer the appropriate amount of Inderol by making sure the dog gets it down. For my very small dog (7 pounds) the Inderol dose is .25 mg. Different weight dogs would require a different dosage.
The Inderol keeps the dog from having a heart attack. Further, the vet noted that dogs who have once “tasted” the bufo may continue to seek them out and lick them. The substance secreted by the toad acts sort of like an opiate and the dog can become addicted to the experience!!!!
atropine also keeps the dog from having a heart attack. and is that a pill you are supposed to get down the throat of a convulsing dog and then wait for it to get into its blood stream? i’ve spoken to 3 different vets now in San Ramon and all of them still recommend atropine, although they did suggest the propanalol (sp?) is an alternative but all 3 thought that atropine was the better choice, and since that’s what i have. . . if the cow dog gets a bufo he’s getting atropine!
The Maya used to lick the toads to induce hallucinations. the liquid acts on serotonin receptors, so basically the dog is tripping its brains out as if it had taken an overdose of Prozac or LSD!
I’m not here to contradict the advice of any vet regarding either atropine or Inderol, but I do have this word of caution . . .
A seizure in any animal or person is characterized by muscles contracting very, very strongly. This is why some human epileptics have been known to break their own teeth. It used to be recommended to put something between their teeth to prevent this injury, but forcing something between a person’s teeth can result in more broken teeth or possibly a broken jaw.
In the event of a human seizure, DO NOT force anything between the patient’s teeth.
And think about that incredibly strong jaw muscle contracture when you’re trying to give a seizing dog oral medication. It sounds like a great way to lose a hand.
What’s more, if the dog has lost control of its voluntary muscles, will it really have the capacity to swallow the pill?
This sounds very iffy to me . . .
[quote=”maravilla”]you had better hope your dog gets a Bufo during business hours because finding a vet after hours or on weekends in Costa Rica is nearly impossible. the doses i quoted in a previous post came from the local vet who has treated many dogs for Bufo contact. i don{t really care what the above study says — if your dog comes in contact with a Bufo it’s likely you don’t live in the city, and if you don’t live in the city, forget the emergency vet hospital. i know two people who lost small dogs to Bufo contact. Had we not had the atropine for my neighbor’s dog this weekend, it surely would’ve died. in that case, it was a Friday night, on a holiday weekend. We called several vets. HA! They were all on vacation. Besides, we are 20 minutes from the nearest vet in the closest town. Not exactly easy access. If you live in the campo in costa rica, most vets will recommend that you have a syringe on hand just in case! And guess what? My neighbor had not a clue what to do to help her dog! She watched it foam at the mouth, then rinsed the mouth with water, then gave the dog food! It was only after the dog got worse that she called me and we acted as quickly as we could.[/quote]That’s the beauty of living in the boonies.I have five vets that LIVE within 10 minutes of me and I know them all fairly well.
Not too long ago I had to call one at 3 AM when a porcupine climbed through my window and met my Bulldog.
Another night he got a toad and yet another a Terciopelo.He’s only missing one nuisance. HINT: It has two legs and whispers con permiso before it smashes your widow out and heads for your laptop.
Noop. I aint calling him off either.Well, 7 days in, and new puppy (Rio) encountered her first Bufo. He’s around every evening – I call him ‘Fat Albert’. Little Rio was about to do her business in the grass and started growling and barking like mad. I jumped from my chair and saw the Bufo and immediately screamed, “Leave it!” at her, then grabbed her and went inside.
Tonight, I chased Fat Albert away with the butt of my flashlight before taking Rio out to do her stuff. So, now I’m officially the Toad Police.
Went to the local vet to ask what to do if she grabs one – he said milk+lemon juice is the first line of defense. He hesitated to sell me Atropine due to the possibility of me overdosing (and killing) the dog…but did say that subcutaneous (under skin) is the way to administer it. He assured me he would answer his phone at any hour in the event of an emergency.
Hmmmmm. I still think I want that syringe :lol:…
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