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We recently purchased a small finca near Samara (in Naranjal), that was formerly part of a large farm where the owner grows coffee, fruit trees, grazes cattle etc. As we only purchased a portion of the property we were looking to have the remainder of our property’s border fenced next month. We received a quote from the gentleman from whom we purchased the property for $1,804,000 colones. This includes itemized costs for materials and labor for the “living” fence posts, fence posts, barbed wire, and clearing necessary before the work can begin. This is for approximately 542 meters of fencing.
My question is basically this – is it expected or common in the CR culture to haggle over the price or bid for a project? To date all of our dealings with the land owner have been very friendly and cordial and as his property surrounds ours he will continue to be our neighbor for years to come. Thus we don’t want to insult him by trying to get the work done for less. However if some “wiggle room” is built in to the estimate we don’t want to pay too much either. Any input from members experiences would be very appreciated.
Thanks!
Joan & Troy[quote=”Scott”]Please clarify the price for us Joan & Troy
Is it $1,804 dollars or is it 1,804,000 colones
Scott[/quote]
The price was quoted as 1,804,000.colones or $3334.57us at 541 exchange rate
I would say to your friend that you are grateful for the offer but have also promised a ‘friend of a friend’ that you would also give them a chance to quote and go out and get 3-4 quotations IN WRITING and make sure they specify EXACTLY what they plan on doing for you with EXACTLY what materials and make sure they spell out materials costs and labor costs so that they can be NO surprises.
It would be better if you bought the materials after they tell you what they need.
I have an account at a local hardware store and my guy tells me what he needs, I deposit money in the hardware store account and after I have double checked with the hardware store that all seems reasonable, he picks the stuff up.
If you pay for the materials then all you have to do is to pay them for their labor as they complete the work…
There is no need to pay them in advance for anything if you have paid for the materials.
Hmmm . . . This sounds like $6US per meter. That seems very pricey if the fence is to be barbed wire strung between living “posts” of locally-harvested cana. The only material to be obtained from the local fereteria would be the wire and staples. It might be worth a trip there to see what those materials would cost.
Could I bid on this job??
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]Hmmm . . . This sounds like $6US per meter. That seems very pricey if the fence is to be barbed wire strung between living “posts” of locally-harvested cana. The only material to be obtained from the local fereteria would be the wire and staples. It might be worth a trip there to see what those materials would cost.
Could I bid on this job??[/quote]
Break down on the bid is as follows and is for 542 linear mts:
100 Postes Muertos – costo por poste 5,500= 550.0001000 Postes Vivos – costo por poste 500 = 500.000
Labor for installing the posts & the wire 356.400
10 rollos de alambre @ 16.000 each 160.000
Labor for clearing (1 hectare) 237.600
Total project cost 1.804.000
materials 1.210.000 colones
Labor 594.000 colonesAre you serious about bidding on the project and/or do you know of anyone in the area that does this kind of work? You are correct that the workers would be harvesting local cana from the owners adjacent property. We would certainly be open to using someone else.
We would like to have this done this year as we have two concerns – first we’ve been told it’s a good idea to have your property fenced and keep the borders maintained. (our plot is 5 hectareo and is currently fenced on each side that adjoins the road) My understanding is that it is not wise to let the property appear that it has been abandoned. We won’t be able to make our move and start construction till some time in 2013 and certainly don’t want to have to deal with any squatter issues. The next issue is that I would like to get the living fence time to get established and grow prior to our moving to CR.
No, I was being facetious about bidding on the job. But something isn’t right . . .
They’re proposing to fence 542 linear meters using 1,100 posts, right? That’s one post about every half meter or one post about every twenty inches. Huh?
And if one thousand of the posts are to be locally cut cana, how do you get to c500 each? That’s about $.92 per post to be cut by a laborer earning (maybe) c3,000 ($5.54US) per hour. If that laborer can’t cut fifteen posts an hour, they need to look for somebody better. Fifteen posts/c3,000 per hour = c200 per post, not c500.
Assuming that they’re proposing to use three strands of wire, that’s 1,626 meters of wire. They want to buy ten rolls, right. So how much wire is on a roll? I’d want to know. The rolls our fereteria sells look like they’re longer than 100 meters, but I could be wrong.
And what about staples, or how will they hold the wire to the posts?
They also propose to clear one hectare. That’s about right (two meter wide swath x 542 meters), but it only needs to be cleared sufficient to build a fence. c237,600 = +/-$439US. Seems like one man could do that work in three days. $146 per day is a [b]WHOLE LOT[/b] to pay for unskilled agricultural labor.
And the balance of the labor, at the same c3,000 per hour rate, comes to about $658US. That’s 1,188 hours of labor or about 2.2 hours of labor per meter to build the fence. (Remember, they’ve already cut the posts.) Two hours and twelve minutes to dig two post holes, insert the posts and backfill, and string three strands of wire? Does that seem right?
(Maybe I do want to bid on this!)
Thanks for the input – the bid did seem a bit high to us both for material and the labor. Too bad you don’t really want to bid on the job!
I still have my initial question out there – has your experience been that contractors or other trades build in room to “haggle” with you on the price? Would your experience be that the person may have started off high to give themselves room to negotiate on the price?
Thanks again for your insight.
You definitely can haggle! Products can be bargained… usually between 5%-8% if you are paying in cash. This mainly is because they have figured into their cost the credit card fees they have to pay for accepting them. Most will give you 5% without a thought… but you have to ask for the cash price after they quote you. Some won’t so if you can get the same product next door it is worth the time for the 5%. Your choice.
Labor… the best way to know is to get the government chart for minimum/maximum wages. Then you know that a guy doing yard work makes an avg of around 1,500 colones an hour. Then just do the math and you will know if you are getting a fair labor quote. The reference for the Government chart I use is Roger Petersen’s Legal Guide to Costa Rica. I believe there is a new one available now with more up to date info.
You for sure need to know the hourly labor for handy men and gardeners to know what a fair quote is. The other day I was quoted double what it should be and he even knew that this gringo didn’t get off the boat yesterday… so shop, haggle and have fun! You will find fair, hard working and loyal helpers if you are patient and fair as well.
Joan&Troy, I would want to see the specifications for this fencing job. How far apart will they put the posts. Divide that number into 542 meters and you’ll know how may posts they’ll use. I’ll bet a cheap lunch it ain’t 1,100.
Find out how much wire there is on a roll and divide that by 1,642 (assuming they’ll use three strands). That’s how many rolls you’ll need.
Offer to pay the going rate (ticopaz sez around c1,500 or maybe c2,000 per hour) and get a flat figure for the number of hours or days of labor.
Then, you’ll have a reasonable number.
Oh! And don’t forget the staples.
I do know that in our area ‘fence posts of local wood’ are not cheap. Definitely [i]much more expensive than 500 col[/i] each. More like $8-10 each and up so your ‘quote per post’ is not far off. When wood is chosen for fence posts, they are usually hardwood.
We are in the ‘midst’ of digging up and moving many of these posts to make a larger area for our goats and it is [i]too expensive[/i] to purchase new ones. We have hired an extra worker, just for this task.
But if [i]you can find descent fence posts for 500 col[/i], my hubby asks that you let us know!
* Note: not all ‘living fences’ will actually grow!crf, have you priced pre-cast concrete posts? They may not qualify as a “living fence”, but they’ll support barbed wire and keep the bad guys out.
David, I don’t have a recent price for the cement posts but they are even higher when we replaced some a few years ago, but even these won’t keep the bad guys out …. but they definitely are straighter! We even made some ourselves, although much larger to support grape vines …although I just watched.:)
I will check with my [i]other half[/i] later if he knows the price.You’re right, of course, crf. None of this will keep the bad guys out.
Unless I were trying to either contain or exclude livestock, I’d do this fence with two strands of barbed wire and call it good.
I think it’s Peterson’s [i]Legal Guide to Costa Rica[/i] that recommends also putting up signs that say “Private Property. No Admission.” and listing the owner’s phone number.
My husband reminded me, that using cement post where there is a lot of cattle on either side, is not a good idea, as the [i] big beasts[/i] love to ‘rub’ on them, so the tend to break and need to be replaced more often. This is what many of the cattle ranchers around told him. And if you have cattle they also like the ‘fresh greenery’ on the living fences!
A couple of a neighbors cattle wandered in last year, after breaking a cement post quite some distance from our house and ignored all my plants with the exception of the Cordyline plants, from which they eat the top off of every one. This happened in Turrialba as well, where we used this as a ‘living/privacy hedge’ and when any cows were being moved, they trimmed it back for us…
So, check first, for cow/goat resistant or undesirable plants of which [i]Jatropha curcas[/i] the plant used for bio-fuel, is one.
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