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[quote=”costaricafinca”][b]Imxploring,[/b] sorry, it wasn’t directed at you …. and I will ‘fix it’.[/quote]
No problem. Have a wonderful day! 🙂
My husband was diagnosed with prostate cancer and was told that this was how long it would take for him to get the necessary surgery through CAJA, so yes we have experienced this wait time. We have also paid for two of our ex-employees to have surgeries in private facilities…due to the extended time frame.
We didn’t come here as [i]pensionados[/i] and the pitiful amount that my comment was based on, is not a OAP pension.We are happy with the amount we pay and have never said otherwise, but feel I must point out to other [i]potential[/i] residents not to believe what many websites targeting retirees, have on their pages and [u]do not up date[/u] them, showing these rising costs.
Suggest we all [url=http://insidecostarica.com/2014/01/15/la-caja-de-pandora-documentary-will-explore-crisis-costa-ricas-public-health-system/]keep an eye out for this documentary[/url]
[quote=”sweikert925″]One of my other main sources of information about all things related to relocating to CR is the blog that Paul and Gloria Yeatman publish and their most recent article on CAJA can be found [url=http://retireforlessincostarica.com/2012/01/paul%E2%80%99s-monthly-tip-to-live-for-less-in-costa-rica-join-the-caja-costa-rica%E2%80%99s-national-medical-system/]here.[/url]
I think we can ALL agree that having the widest possible range of opinions and as many facts as possible is vital to making an informed decision about relocating to CR.[/quote]
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the folks running Costa Rica just came up with a basic pricing system for CAJA where one could know what the price would be before applying for residency instead of being confronted with the tab at the VERY END of the process during a rather subjective “interview”? Seems to be an issue that one must seriously consider.
Perhaps the government HAS adopted a Gringo Pricing system where they can get you for as much as possible for CAJA after you’ve already committed serious time and money to applying for residency?
It sounds as if the prices can vary quite wildly with no discernible methodology to their setting. Just doesn’t seem right…. perhaps as the new laws are defined and tested we’ll have a straight answer.
Sweikert, I did look at the one on your link. I only read blogs of those showing up in a search of information I am looking for, so here is the experience of another [url=http://adullroar.blogspot.com/2012/07/one-gringo-familys-caja-experience.html] one to look at[/url] that shows a similar case of a prolonged attempt to get treatment, and sorry to say, it is not, unusual.
[url=http://www.michunche.com/2013/07/whats-emergency-in-emergency-room.html]Here is another[/url] and sorry it took me a while to find it again…
Both authors have noted that thy have had both good and bad experiences.
Make no mistake in thinking that the majority of those using private care, is expats.
[quote=”sweikert925″]One of my other main sources of information about all things related to relocating to CR is the blog that Paul and Gloria Yeatman publish and their most recent article on CAJA can be found [url=http://retireforlessincostarica.com/2012/01/paul%E2%80%99s-monthly-tip-to-live-for-less-in-costa-rica-join-the-caja-costa-rica%E2%80%99s-national-medical-system/]here.[/url]
I think we can ALL agree that having the widest possible range of opinions and as many facts as possible is vital to making an informed decision about relocating to CR.[/quote]
Steve I checked on Gloria and Paul’s[size=][/size] article. Good information. I did find it troubling that they acknowledged a 23% increase in their CAJA premium in late 2012 and also an additional 17% increase in January 2014! I calculated the second increase using information in the story and one of the dated replies Gloria posted to a question someone posted at the bottom of the story.
So in a little over a year her CAJA costs have gone up over 40% and she doesn’t find that troubling? I think most people would be rather concerned with an increase of that size in such a short period.
Gloria also states that [i]” Since the laws changed a few years back, they are basing monthly Caja on 13% of the amount you use for your residency, so if your monthly Social Security is $1,000, your Caja would be $130/month.” [/i]
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”costaricafinca”]Gloria also states that [i]” Since the laws changed a few years back, they are basing monthly Caja on 13% of the amount you use for your residency, so if your monthly Social Security is $1,000, your Caja would be $130/month.” [/i][/quote]
Well I actually spoke to Gloria last time I was there and she admitted that she and Paul were going by what they heard too, and not from any firsthand or even secondhand experience.
I notice that you left out the last sentence of her comment, so I ‘m sure you want me to rectify that:
[i]The raise in rates is unfortunate for new people coming to Costa Rica, but it’s still a lot less than what it would cost in the U.S. for the same coverage.[/i][/quote]
“The same coverage” doesn’t always equate to “the same care” … which is why many, when they become serious ill, return to the US or Canada.
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Imxploring”]So in a little over a year her CAJA costs have gone up over 40% and she doesn’t find that troubling? [/quote]
Well given that the very fist sentence of that blog post is [i]$61.00 per month — this is the amount we pay for health insurance in Costa Rica, and this is one of the main reasons we stay in Costa Rica.[/i] then the answer would seem to be “apparently not”.A 40% increase would be alarming if the number being increased was already large but in this case – and in the case of a few others whose experience we have now learned – it wasn’t.
If my CAJA assessment was $1 and it increased to $10, would your reaction be “Oh My God! a 900% increase!” Or would it be what most sensible people would conclude – “Hey, you sure are getting a bargain compared to what others have to pay!”
Or how about this: My PRIVATE HEALTHCARE INSURANCE copay for medication went up a couple of years ago from $20 to $40 – a 100% increase! Should I be alarmed about that or should I concentrate on the fact that I’m still only paying $40 for medication that might otherwise have cost me thousands of dollars if I had to pay for the entire cost?
[/quote]It’s funny Steve…. when we discussed the idea of CAJA premiums being set as a function of a precentage of declared income the issue of it being set as such wasn’t a big deal to you.
But now that we’re talking about CAJA monthly premiums being increasing by over 40% in just over a year you use the dismissive argument that your “copay for medication went up a couple of years ago from $20 to $40 – a 100% increase!”. Let me ask…. how long had they been fixed at $20? Have they increased in the “couple of years” since? And how about your actual health insurance PREMIUMS…. have they increased by 40% in just over year? I’m guessing as a healthy guy that the increased medication copay resulted in less than a $50 increase in your annual out of pocket expense…. feel free to correct me. And might not have even resulted in an increased cost at all!
I guess this whole CAJA issue comes down how you will react when you’re relocated and living in Costa Rica and you’re told your wife has stage 2 ovarian cancer, or breast cancer, or that you have advanced prostate cancer (God forbid any of those situation)… how confident will you be rolling the dice on CAJA then? I’m confident that Expedia.com (for that trip back to the states) will be the first website you hit when you get back from the clinic.
BTW…. While Gloria is currently getting a “deal” compared to what I, or new residency applicants, would be required to pay for CAJA perhaps that taints her perspective on the issue… she’s not paying alot so she doesn’t have high expectations. On the other hand if she were paying $800/month she might not be so “pleased” with her return on investment.
On another issue. The idea of, in any way, comparing the cost and service of the public health system in Costa Rica with that provided in the US or Canada is a non-starter and ridiculous to ANYONE that has experienced both. To use the term “same coverage” comparing the two is rather disingenuous.
[quote=”Imxploring”] Glad she’s doing well Les… but unfortunately many cancers are among the leading causes of death worldwide and are also the illnesses who’s treatment result in the highest medical costs. Having lost family to cancer I can confirm both those facts.[/quote]
She is doing well and has been cancer free for two years now.
Talk about expenses…she gets a cancer checkup every four months and is allowed to see her cancer doctor without appointments. All she has to do is appear at his office and he invites her in. It is an unusual situation but much appreciated.Her family has the worst gene pool imaginable but CAJA has been generous in treating fibromyalgis, diabetes, heart attacks, skin conditions, gout and I am sure I have not remembered all she gets treatment for.
If we were getting our medical care in the States we would have been bankrupt some time ago. When you get this kind of care you have to have a great appreciation for it. I certainly do.
While I surely don’t wish you any harm I guess only time will tell should you be confronted with a serious medical issue wheather or not you will place your life in the hands of the public system in CR. Only then will this issue be resolved.
Having witnessed several folks return to the states when confronted with such a predicament (had lunch with a couple Sunday before last that were doing just that… had been longtime residents of CR) I’m confident in playing the odds.
As much as those of us that have made the commitment to CR really love the place (hence the name of this site) it is not a place where everything is perfect and unfortunately in the last few years changes have been made that have made that even less the case. The hope is that the trend does not continue.
[quote=”waggoner41″][quote=”Imxploring”] Glad she’s doing well Les… but unfortunately many cancers are among the leading causes of death worldwide and are also the illnesses who’s treatment result in the highest medical costs. Having lost family to cancer I can confirm both those facts.[/quote]
She is doing well and has been cancer free for two years now.
Talk about expenses…she gets a cancer checkup every four months and is allowed to see her cancer doctor without appointments. All she has to do is appear at his office and he invites her in. It is an unusual situation but much appreciated.Her family has the worst gene pool imaginable but CAJA has been generous in treating fibromyalgis, diabetes, heart attacks, skin conditions, gout and I am sure I have not remembered all she gets treatment for.
If we were getting our medical care in the States we would have been bankrupt some time ago. When you get this kind of care you have to have a great appreciation for it. I certainly do.[/quote]
Les, It sounds as if your wife has been treated very well after being dealt a rather lousy opening (genetic) hand in the game of life. That’s wonderful news and truly a blessing, continued best wishes to her health and treatment. You have been very fortunate in those you have encountered in your experience and I know that you must appreciate it!
[quote=”Imxploring”][quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Imxploring”]Is your current health insurance in Chi-Town based on a percentage of your income? How about your auto insurance or your renters insurance? I’m guessing they’re not.[/quote]
That’s a fair point but the other examples of protective services I cited are – and healthcare services are [b]not[/b] a product as you seem to insist. But OK, if we want to limit the discussion to healthcare only then what about Medicare – that is paid for by a tax on income. The more you earn the more you pay.[quote=”Imxploring”]Even Obamacare in the US is not based on income for those exceeding the subsidies levels (lower income individuals and families). A person making $1,000,000/ year is not charged more than a person making $100,000![/quote]
Well Obamacare is, at the end of the day, simply private healthcare insurance that people have been induced to purchase. And in private healthcare insurance not everyone pays the same either, and it is not solely based on risk. If I lived in downstate Illinois I would pay less than I do here in Chicago because healthcare providers downstate earn less than they do here. So I pay higher premiums as a result.Even risk based premiums aren’t strictly fair because older people [b]TEND[/b] to use more healthcare services but it doesn’t [b]NECESSARILY[/b] mean that a particular older person will require more healthcare. It’s all just an estimation.
Of course one could consider the most unfairly treated people of all to be those who pay for healthcare insurance and never get sick – every dollar they pay in premiums goes to pay for healthcare for other people.
You are certainly entitled to feel aggrieved that you pay more for things because of your higher income level but as I said earlier, what we each consider fair can vary from person to person. I consider it fair that people with more means pay more than people with less.[/quote]
Looking at your last sentence I’m guessing you’re pretty much a socialist Steve…. so should I be paying more for my groceries or a meal when I dine out… how about my car insurance or electric? Where would you draw the line? Don’t you think such an attitude encourages people to seek to game the system and discourages people to seek being more productive and sucessful?
And finally…. is that belief and view based on your own position in life and how such a system would benefit you at the expenses of other more sucessful people since it would appear you would be on the receiving end of this system rather than the paying end?
I noticed in an earlier post you mentioned you figured that your contribution to CAJA would only be about $100-$130 per month. Assuming you’re using the 10%-13% numbers that have been mentioned for mandatory CAJA contributions that means you are figuring on having to declaring approximately $1000 per month (the bare minimum) in total income to obtain your residency. If I have those numbers correct will that be your total income? I’m guessing not since I think you know you won’t be able to live on $900 per month in CR unless you go native. And with inflation and the apparent increases in CAJA even if you could initially.. your stay would be a short one when time and increasing cost quickly caught up with you.
So you will have other income I’m guessing. How about when SS kicks in after you relocate? Will you be declairing that additional income (even though it might not be required for you to obtain your residency) since you feel so strongly that people with means pay more than people with less? Or will you be gaming the system since it benefits you?
It’s easy to enjoy the ride (and even justify it) when someone else is paying the price… but be careful you might have to walk by a mirror and see yourself, although for many people these days that doesn’t even seem to matter!
Once again… personal health INSURANCE is a product… not a social program![/quote]
I’m new to this forum but Imxploring you “nailed” it. 😉
Imxploring
touche!!! ( is that correct??) 🙂 excellent reply
how can any sensible person not see the logic with this statement. oh yea lol
[quote=”Nansie”][quote=”Imxploring”][quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Imxploring”]Is your current health insurance in Chi-Town based on a percentage of your income? How about your auto insurance or your renters insurance? I’m guessing they’re not.[/quote]
That’s a fair point but the other examples of protective services I cited are – and healthcare services are [b]not[/b] a product as you seem to insist. But OK, if we want to limit the discussion to healthcare only then what about Medicare – that is paid for by a tax on income. The more you earn the more you pay.[quote=”Imxploring”]Even Obamacare in the US is not based on income for those exceeding the subsidies levels (lower income individuals and families). A person making $1,000,000/ year is not charged more than a person making $100,000![/quote]
Well Obamacare is, at the end of the day, simply private healthcare insurance that people have been induced to purchase. And in private healthcare insurance not everyone pays the same either, and it is not solely based on risk. If I lived in downstate Illinois I would pay less than I do here in Chicago because healthcare providers downstate earn less than they do here. So I pay higher premiums as a result.Even risk based premiums aren’t strictly fair because older people [b]TEND[/b] to use more healthcare services but it doesn’t [b]NECESSARILY[/b] mean that a particular older person will require more healthcare. It’s all just an estimation.
Of course one could consider the most unfairly treated people of all to be those who pay for healthcare insurance and never get sick – every dollar they pay in premiums goes to pay for healthcare for other people.
You are certainly entitled to feel aggrieved that you pay more for things because of your higher income level but as I said earlier, what we each consider fair can vary from person to person. I consider it fair that people with more means pay more than people with less.[/quote]
Looking at your last sentence I’m guessing you’re pretty much a socialist Steve…. so should I be paying more for my groceries or a meal when I dine out… how about my car insurance or electric? Where would you draw the line? Don’t you think such an attitude encourages people to seek to game the system and discourages people to seek being more productive and sucessful?
And finally…. is that belief and view based on your own position in life and how such a system would benefit you at the expenses of other more sucessful people since it would appear you would be on the receiving end of this system rather than the paying end?
I noticed in an earlier post you mentioned you figured that your contribution to CAJA would only be about $100-$130 per month. Assuming you’re using the 10%-13% numbers that have been mentioned for mandatory CAJA contributions that means you are figuring on having to declaring approximately $1000 per month (the bare minimum) in total income to obtain your residency. If I have those numbers correct will that be your total income? I’m guessing not since I think you know you won’t be able to live on $900 per month in CR unless you go native. And with inflation and the apparent increases in CAJA even if you could initially.. your stay would be a short one when time and increasing cost quickly caught up with you.
So you will have other income I’m guessing. How about when SS kicks in after you relocate? Will you be declairing that additional income (even though it might not be required for you to obtain your residency) since you feel so strongly that people with means pay more than people with less? Or will you be gaming the system since it benefits you?
It’s easy to enjoy the ride (and even justify it) when someone else is paying the price… but be careful you might have to walk by a mirror and see yourself, although for many people these days that doesn’t even seem to matter!
Once again… personal health INSURANCE is a product… not a social program![/quote]
I’m new to this forum but Imxploring you “nailed” it. :wink:[/quote]
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Nansie”]I’m new to this forum but Imxploring you “nailed” it. :wink:[/quote]
I see one of our regular users has created a new alter ego for himself.[/quote]I was paying 17300 colones per month and its now 20225.. so it went up 3000 colones.
[quote=”sweikert925″]I have finally gotten around to requesting and getting access to the user forum message board that [url=http://www.arcr.net/]ARCR[/url] runs and there are several comments from people who posted the ACTUAL percentages they were assessed under the new law – rather than some of the horror stories that we’ve seen posted here.
One user posted on August 26, 2013 that she had knowledge of 2 couples, both having $1500 of declared income. One couple paid $120-130 (8%) and another paid $90 (6%).
Another comment was posted on June 27, 2013 from another user who said that he wound up assessed at 9% of his declared income.
I wish we could get more FACTS posted here and fewer rumors.[/quote]
I think we all wish the folks running the show in CR would simply publish the laws with firm numbers so that people knew what they were dealing with (re: CAJA Contributions) before applying for residency. Scott’s source seemed to indicate higher numbers. And as much as I would like to believe the numbers you posted are correct Steve… they are second or third hand information. Scott’s source has been a reliable provider of information for a number of years.
Once again the uncertainty of the assessment and the subjective nature of it’s calculation (at the end of the residency process) is another example of how CR is shooting themselves in the foot in attracting retirees. Gringo pricing in government services doesn’t sit well with any of us. But after this next election the issue may be moot anyway. We’ll all know EXACTLY what direction things are headed in the treatment of expats.
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