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[quote=”davidd”][quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Nansie”]I’m new to this forum but Imxploring you “nailed” it. :wink:[/quote]
I see one of our regular users has created a new alter ego for himself.[/quote]I was paying 17300 colones per month and its now 20225.. so it went up 3000 colones.
[/quote]
Great deal…. but I’m guessing you’d still go private for anything beyond the simplest of medical needs! 🙂
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Imxploring”] Scott’s source seemed to indicate higher numbers. And as much as I would like to believe the numbers you posted are correct Steve… they are second or third hand information. Scott’s source has been a reliable provider of information for a number of years.[/quote]
Well I should let Scott speak for himself but I took those higher numbers to be the TOTAL percentages that [b]self-employed persons[/b] pay for [b]both Health Coverage AND Disability & Death [/b]. Only the healthcare portion is generally assessed against pensionados.If you go back to [url=http://www.costaricalaw.com/Immigration-and-Residency/costa-rica-mandatory-registration-with-social-security-for-residency.html] this link I provided earlier[/url] you’ll see the combined assessments for the 2 programs range from 11.5% to 18.34%, but the healthcare only portion ranges from 5.5% to 11% – which matches what people have actually reported having been assessed recently.[/quote]
Once again I find it hard to believe that NO firm government source can be located that provides fixed numbers for this fee as it is being applied to expats. The very idea of the “post” residency application approval “interview” being where the true numbers are fixed doesn’t seem very fair or reasonable.
I guess as with any new law time will fine tune it and make it clear as to what is really going on. But even with the range you’re mentioning the idea of paying $700/month for CAJA as a part time resident for the services provided makes no sense.
Friends recently withdrew their application when the attorney gave them an idea as to how the “new” CAJA rates would impact them. As “snowbirds” they spend 4-5 months per year at their home in CR. The idea of obtaining residency was to make it possible to stay the entire time and not have to jump out of the country at the 3 month mark to renew their tourist visa. But to pay 12 months of CAJA at the rate they were given made little sense. Paying out of pocket or using private care (with US based insurance reimbursement) and using travel insurance with an evacuation benefit in the case of a serious issue made much more sense financially.
I guess if David’s info was correct the idea during the “interview” process is to bulk up your living expenses as to lower what the interviewer might think they can get from you. LOL Once again I don’t see that as very fair or reasonable, nor a way for such a cost to be fixed. But then again perhaps they’re engaging in some dynamic pricing to see just how much they can get from folks.
[quote=”sweikert925″]
As for the subjectivity of the assessment, I found [url=https://www.welovecostarica.com/members/cfmbb/messages.cfm?messageid=B6726885-24E8-5ED2-F1E2E0E58F7CEC89#B6726885-24E8-5ED2-F1E2E0E58F7CEC89]this comment posted here way back in 2009[/url] that explains why that may be.[/quote]
Quite the disincentive to live frugally within (or beneath ones) means … which, apparently, will, like old soldiers, fade away by 2019. From Tico Times (January 15th) http://www.ticotimes.net/2014/01/15/change-in-calculation-of-monthly-deductions-confuses-cajas-insurance-holders
[quote=”pixframe”][quote=”sweikert925″]
As for the subjectivity of the assessment, I found [url=https://www.welovecostarica.com/members/cfmbb/messages.cfm?messageid=B6726885-24E8-5ED2-F1E2E0E58F7CEC89#B6726885-24E8-5ED2-F1E2E0E58F7CEC89]this comment posted here way back in 2009[/url] that explains why that may be.[/quote]
Quite the disincentive to live frugally within (or beneath ones) means … which, apparently, will, like old soldiers, fade away by 2019. From Tico Times (January 15th) http://www.ticotimes.net/2014/01/15/change-in-calculation-of-monthly-deductions-confuses-cajas-insurance-holders%5B/quote%5D
Nice pick up on that information Pix… Seems there are some major adjustments coming to CAJA rates to address the dire financial situation CAJA faces… and as much as they say it was NOT the case (No, I’m not being paranoid Steve) should CAJA at some point in the future request a TOTAL income report (as I had postulated in a prior posting), not just what one “declares” to meet the minimum for residency, from expats there are going to be some major changes in rates for foreign residents. Workers in CR are in for some big changes too. Avoiding taxes is a sport in CR. At least the increases are being phased in over time!
You had to guess when they made CAJA participation mandatory for residency that they had something up their sleeve, its another cash flow to fund the promises made to CR citizens. The argument that folks (expats) were using the system or some type of burden while not being covered by insurance didn’t really fly. As anyone that has had to use medical services in CR that was not covered by CAJA knows… they want a deposit (cash or credit card is fine) or payment before treatment.
Tapping expats is a ground ball…. they can’t vote… and most of the folks in CR think we all have money trees in perpetual bloom back in the land of milk and honey!
[quote=”sweikert925″]That report tends to prove two things. First, as so often happens, honest taxpayers will wind up having to pay a higher cost because of tax cheats and second, imxploring’s paranoia about Gringos being the target of some dastardly plot to gouge them is just that – paranoia.[/quote]
Come now Steve… like I told you previously…. Paranoia in the unfounded fear people are out to get you! In this case they’re just out to get your money (nothing new there when it comes to governments that have made promises they can’t keep and spent the future today)… and after you relocate to CR for a while (or anywhere that a true divide exist between the haves and the have-nots)… you’ll understand.
Until that happens… you’re entitled to your opinion as to the motivation and true intentions of the folks running CR… just as I am mine. The difference is mine in based on 8 years of actual experience, yours is based on a Google search! LOL 😉
lol yep.. that is what we will call sweikert
“Mr Google” 🙂
[quote=”Imxploring”][quote=”sweikert925″]That report tends to prove two things. First, as so often happens, honest taxpayers will wind up having to pay a higher cost because of tax cheats and second, imxploring’s paranoia about Gringos being the target of some dastardly plot to gouge them is just that – paranoia.[/quote]
Come now Steve… like I told you previously…. Paranoia in the unfounded fear people are out to get you! In this case they’re just out to get your money (nothing new there when it comes to governments that have made promises they can’t keep and spent the future today)… and after you relocate to CR for a while (or anywhere that a true divide exist between the haves and the have-nots)… you’ll understand.
Until that happens… you’re entitled to your opinion as to the motivation and true intentions of the folks running CR… just as I am mine. The difference is mine in based on 8 years of actual experience, yours is based on a Google search! LOL 😉
[/quote]
lol yep.. that is what we will call sweikert
“Mr Google” 🙂
[quote=”Imxploring”][quote=”sweikert925″]That report tends to prove two things. First, as so often happens, honest taxpayers will wind up having to pay a higher cost because of tax cheats and second, imxploring’s paranoia about Gringos being the target of some dastardly plot to gouge them is just that – paranoia.[/quote]
Come now Steve… like I told you previously…. Paranoia in the unfounded fear people are out to get you! In this case they’re just out to get your money (nothing new there when it comes to governments that have made promises they can’t keep and spent the future today)… and after you relocate to CR for a while (or anywhere that a true divide exist between the haves and the have-nots)… you’ll understand.
Until that happens… you’re entitled to your opinion as to the motivation and true intentions of the folks running CR… just as I am mine. The difference is mine in based on 8 years of actual experience, yours is based on a Google search! LOL 😉
[/quote]
Just received this wonderful email form ARCR,see below. I have written them to ask, since I am under “inversionista” and it sounds as if my rate will be even higher then the astronomical amounts they have listed for the others.
My question to all is if anyone knows if once I attain my permanent residency if that will indeed lower my rate substantially, I am eligible in one more year, and I am under 55.
Thanks, and take a look if you haven’t seen this yet.We wish to inform you that the CCSS, Costa Rican HealthCare System (Caja), has made changes that will affect all Caja offices and all the convenios (agreements) throughout the country effective JANUARY 1 2014. Unfortunately there is little we can do at this time, and individuals would need to decide whether to continue or not.
As usual, the CCSS has just notified us of the annual increase for our affiliates, however they are also enforcing a new rate on members under certain residency status as a specific amount, based on the residency law.
The most affected appear to be Investor Status, and we ask that those affected contact us at legal@arcr.net
For PENSIONADOS and RENTISTAS the rate has been set at the income specified in the residency laws, hence Rentista’s at $2500 and Pensionado’s $1000.
For these groups the new rates are: Pensionados over 55 years of age = $75/month
Pensionados under 55 years = $139/month
Rentista’s over 55 years = $252/month
Rentista’s under 55 years = $442/monthPERMANENT RESIDENTS on our policy face a slight increase to $63/month (over 55 years) or $114/month (under 55)
We thank you for your comprehension in this matter.
– ARCR
[quote=”playayoga”]Just received this wonderful email form ARCR,see below. I have written them to ask, since I am under “inversionista” and it sounds as if my rate will be even higher then the astronomical amounts they have listed for the others.
My question to all is if anyone knows if once I attain my permanent residency if that will indeed lower my rate substantially, I am eligible in one more year, and I am under 55.
Thanks, and take a look if you haven’t seen this yet.We wish to inform you that the CCSS, Costa Rican HealthCare System (Caja), has made changes that will affect all Caja offices and all the convenios (agreements) throughout the country effective JANUARY 1 2014. Unfortunately there is little we can do at this time, and individuals would need to decide whether to continue or not.
As usual, the CCSS has just notified us of the annual increase for our affiliates, however they are also enforcing a new rate on members under certain residency status as a specific amount, based on the residency law.
The most affected appear to be Investor Status, and we ask that those affected contact us at legal@arcr.net
For PENSIONADOS and RENTISTAS the rate has been set at the income specified in the residency laws, hence Rentista’s at $2500 and Pensionado’s $1000.
For these groups the new rates are: Pensionados over 55 years of age = $75/month
Pensionados under 55 years = $139/month
Rentista’s over 55 years = $252/month
Rentista’s under 55 years = $442/monthPERMANENT RESIDENTS on our policy face a slight increase to $63/month (over 55 years) or $114/month (under 55)
We thank you for your comprehension in this matter.
– ARCR[/quote]
I wish someone had an answer to your question but I fear even if you were able to contact a government source you wouldn’t get a solid answer.
I’m taking it that the numbers quoted are new (increased) rates for the PREVIOUSLY available group plans that ARCR offered which, I believe, are no longer available to new residency applicants. Seems these rates apply to those grandfathered in under the old rules and the group policy available at the time from ARCR which is no longer offered. The new rates for current applicants appear to be even higher…. and somewhat less “fixed” based on a particular status, age, and income declaration.
You didn’t mention the new rate you’re being hit with but looking at the under 55 rate that rentista’s are being assessed with one can only imagine! It’s pretty obvious that the rates are not based on risk factors and need for care.
If ARCR is asking you to contact their legal department reference the investor status rate it must a rather large increase! Sorry to hear that!
The question becomes…. If you obtained your residency at a time when enrollment in CAJA was not mandatory and you enrolled in the ARCR plan voluntarily can you simply drop your ARCR plan without risk to your residency status? Seems the line in their letter “Unfortunately there is little we can do at this time, and individuals would need to decide whether to continue or not.” leaves that question open.
Perhaps they wish to consult with you prior to you doing so out of concern that it may put your residency in jeapody. I’d be sure to get something in writing from a CR government source before dropping the plan!
Thanks for the information![quote=”costaricafinca”]Article today on [url=http://amcostarica.com/]amcostarica[/url] explained by ARCR[/quote]
Good information…. however the article fails to address the issue (if I’m correct) that these new ARCR rates only impact those folks grandfathered in under the ARCR plans that were available under the old residency rules. Even so the increases for rentista and investor status are sure to have a rather large impact on money coming into CR. Or in the case of folks already invested and living in CR…. the cash flow headed out.
Follow up article this morning on [url=http://amcostarica.com/]amcostarica[/url] suggesting there may be a petition.
[quote=”costaricafinca”]Follow up article this morning on [url=http://amcostarica.com/]amcostarica[/url] suggesting there may be a petition.[/quote]
Worth signing… but as “rich gringos” that can’t vote the likelihood is that the folks running the show in CR will care very little about any complaints we might make!
Looking at the article and what they’re assessing “Investor” residency holders as far as declared monthly income ($3300!!!!) and the new CAJA rates…. they apparently don’t care about future investment in the country either. That just made a decision I was dealing with much easier.
One line in the article sums it up….. “The Caja changes transcend the agreement that the association has with it. The new rates will be applied to all who have residency status in Costa Rica because the cash-strapped Caja is seeking money wherever it can raise it.”
I guess it’s not paranoia Steve…. perhaps I just have a better understand of how governments work and reading the signs that give one insight to future trends. History is often the best indicator of the future!
Another prediction is that at some point they will move past simply assessing CAJA rates on minimal required income levels or the amount you “declare” on your residency application and will instead seek full income reporting to set the CAJA rates. That will no doubt go hand in hand with a tightening of the perpetual tourist (PT) scheme that many use to avoid the residency requirements and CAJA fees.
The article alludes to that becoming the case already when it comes to determining income…. “Typically when a new resident seeks to join the Caja health plan, a condition of residency, they have an interview with a worker there.
The worker determines the individual’s monthly income and establishes a monthly premium consistent with the amount.”
As to the PT issue I had an experience at immigration that foretells the direction that this is going. I travel to CR about three times a year for various lengths of stay and have done so for 9 years. As such my passport has numerous entry stamps for CR. No stay has ever been near 90 days… nor am I a PT jumping in and out for a day or two to renew my tourist visa.
On a recent visit the immigration official looked carefully at the pages of my passport seeing the great number of entry stamps to CR… and unlike EVERY other time where they simply stamp a page and write “90 dias” on the line under the stamp he asked how long I was staying… when I replied “two weeks” he wrote “15 dias” on the line. When I noticed I asked why? He then motioned for a supervisor at which point, sensing it was going to become an issue and place me on someone’s radar, I said it wasn’t a problem, took my passport, thanked him, and left to grab my luggage.
So make no mistake about it… they are looking.
Regarding the Investor premium, I remember reading that a forum member, ratus, mentioned that his lawyer was intending to appeal the findings.
“ratus wrote:
We have been in our new home for 3 weeks now, so we are pretty much experts on everything…….. NOT..<:We are applying for residency via the investor program
( Inversionista )
We have submitted our Canadian documents to our CR immigration lawyers and all was going well….until we found out that because our house purchase was barely over the 200k minimum, and we both held 50% of the shares…no one person, owned a property over 200k. So back to our lawyer, and re-assign 100% of the shares into my name, to show a purchase of over 200k. I will apply, and my wife can apply as my beneficiary. Now we are waiting for word on how that’s going…our documents are dated valid until Dec 6th, so we have time. They just need to be fully submitted by that time.
Our immigration lawyer told us, that CAJA now will determine that all investors are making a minimum of $2000 a month,and they will now take 10% for SS in CR. So $200 a month and we are covered for insurance…BUT, our lawyer said they are appealing that decision and CAJA can not arbitrarily decide how much a corporation makes…so still fightin on that part. But 10% of 2000 is a hell of alot better than 13% of 1 of our pensions.”
If he reads this maybe he will add a response.
[quote=”costaricafinca”]Regarding the Investor premium, I remember reading that a forum member, ratus, mentioned that his lawyer was intending to appeal the findings.
“ratus wrote:
We have been in our new home for 3 weeks now, so we are pretty much experts on everything…….. NOT..<:We are applying for residency via the investor program
( Inversionista )
We have submitted our Canadian documents to our CR immigration lawyers and all was going well….until we found out that because our house purchase was barely over the 200k minimum, and we both held 50% of the shares…no one person, owned a property over 200k. So back to our lawyer, and re-assign 100% of the shares into my name, to show a purchase of over 200k. I will apply, and my wife can apply as my beneficiary. Now we are waiting for word on how that’s going…our documents are dated valid until Dec 6th, so we have time. They just need to be fully submitted by that time.
Our immigration lawyer told us, that CAJA now will determine that all investors are making a minimum of $2000 a month,and they will now take 10% for SS in CR. So $200 a month and we are covered for insurance…BUT, our lawyer said they are appealing that decision and CAJA can not arbitrarily decide how much a corporation makes…so still fightin on that part. But 10% of 2000 is a hell of alot better than 13% of 1 of our pensions.”
If he reads this maybe he will add a response.
[/quote]
I sure hope he gives us an update since it will give us an idea as to how CURRENT applicants for residency under the various categories are being treated with the new rules. The problem is that the latest information in A.M. Costa Rica seems to only detail the impact the changes are having on ARCR members who are participating in one of their previously available group plans. ARCR is usually very much on target with their information. If they are saying that folks with investor residency status under their plan are being assessed a $3300/ month “income” for the purposes of setting a CAJA assessment rate you have to believe new applicants are being treated the same way.
The current process seems VERY arbitrary with no clearly defined rules on CAJA rates and that makes me very uncomfortable on the direction this is going. With the increases the folks in the ARCR plans are being hit with one can only wonder what new applicants will be faced with.
Hoping more information becomes available soon. A major purchase just went into suspend mode until this is cleared up.
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