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According to amcostarica:
The Arias administration is taking two actions designed to reduce the growing incidents of crime.
A measure signed Wednesday allows the security minister to put in some 300 surveillance cameras at key points around the country by December. Eventually some 3,000 cameras are planned at a cost of $18 million.
Okay, I said CR has a few more years until it starts to be like the US – well with the passage of the TLC and now Cameras on the streets it looks like I was right. Can you imagine RED Light cameras in San Jose? This December I will be sniffing around Nicaragua waiting for Castro to die. The world is running out of option to escapr the govermnet trap. How much further can the long reach of the political correctness and other freedom threatening indoctrinations stretch? All who work for the government plese quit – a good dose of worldwide anarchy is desperatly needed.
Arias may move CR into the developed country status so everybody may be able to buy a cheap television, but does this country want to sell it civil liberties for, Tide detergent and chaep electrodomesticos – at what cost freedom? Do we need more television mentality? Hoist the stars and stripes CR – too bad.
Honestly, Diego, I see no problem at all with the cameras on PUBLIC STREETS. The rights to privacy and free speech have always had limitations. But those limitations ONLY come to bear in the PUBLIC ARENA. Nobody has a constitutional right to misbehave in public.
Associations with other individuals IN PUBLIC should not be secretive. The danger comes when government uses public information such as association with others to persecute individuals. However, as long as all civil liberties remain intact, publicly gathered information is useless as a means to persecute.
The same holds true for speech. Let Bush read all the emails he wishes. Then pounce with extreme force if and when that information is misused. If you have secrets you wish to preserve, keep them out of the public arena. The more light that shines there, the better. I WANT Big Brother in some places. I do NOT want him in other places. The streets of San Jose need a presence from what I am reading.
If you are so concerned about maintaining personal liberties on public streets, why not also do away with street lamps and busy body police?Hey Sprite,
I took you post seriousluy untill I read the last paragraph.
Unfortunately, the part that needs to emphazied is “as long as civil liberties stay intact” oooH – that was a big “AS LONG.” Public cameras are a huge invasion and the beggining of the errosion of civil liberties. So the Gov gets the info, Gov uses the info, and then you cry foul to the Gov when it misusues the info – sounds more like the Cuban System the (in-) justice, Samuel Adams would be rolling in his grave.
Honestly I don’t know why you guys come to CR and want it to be like the US. It stupifies me. Isn’t the “let’s go to someplace wild and tame it” mentality lasting a bit long – like from the Columbus days. The problem this times is it is comming from the americamn puppet Dr O. Too many Cheerios I guess.
Funny enough I was reading this about London this morning …
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“There are now 10,524 CCTV cameras in 32 London boroughs funded with Home Office grants totalling about £200million.
But an analysis of the publicly funded spy network, which is owned and controlled by local authorities and Transport for London, has cast doubt on its ability to help solve crime.
A comparison of the number of cameras in each London borough with the proportion of crimes solved there found that police are no more likely to catch offenders in areas with hundreds of cameras than in those with hardly any.
In fact, four out of five of the boroughs with the most cameras have a record of solving crime that is below average.
The figures were obtained by the Liberal Democrats on the London Assembly using the Freedom of Information Act. “
—————–
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comThe ability to solve crime with cameras may be compromised by the fact they are in an office looking at the monitor, and not on the street where they should be. How many people do you think it requires to monitor 10,524 cameras? If one can only look at a maximum of, say, 10 at one time, that leaves 1000 potential officers off the street. I would be assuming, of course, officers would be the ones doing the surveillance.
Big brother is here, there, and everywhere.
Sprite, Now this is beginning to scare me. How long do you think it will be before the chip gets implanted in us….They are already using it in pets. And don’t forget about E-Zpass.
The thing that bothers me is, who is watching, why are THEY the ones watching, and how do we know they can be trusted.
The problem is once technology is invented, you can’t un-invent it. This talk about, “well, if you are an honest citizen, you need not worry” garbage is not cutting it anymore. Face it! We all will be under the microscope as the technos create more and more sophisticated devices. I’m not an ACLU kind of guy, but I think they should be looking at our eroding civil liberties in this regard.
I don’t like the thought of someone I don’t even know, creeping around looking at me, possibly just for their own personal kicks. And don’t think it won’t happen. Who knows who will be given oversight to this type of thing. Can you imagine the areas of abuse?
Although I’m not for anarchy, we all have a right to enjoy life without Big Brother watching from every corner–especially if the intention of the cameras is to reduce crime and the measure isn’t valid because it doesn’t accomplish it’s goal. Let’s just hope no one starts to think those chip implants are going to solve anything either for people and not for animals. It’s actually giving pets tumors (see link). Once technology is invented, you can’t put the genie back in the bottle, but you can certainly choose not to invite it over for dinner. The founding fathers of US were wise to insure a system of checks and balances–Right now, it’s more about what’s going on unchecked and our right to the “pursuit of happiness” is one of the things that lays in the balance….All I can say is that I don’t think those cameras will last long in San Jose, I’m sure some chapulin will put them to better use 🙂
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/08/AR2007090800997_pf.html
It’s easier to keep civil liberties than lose them and try to regain them. It’s just like the “temporary” income tax that eventually created the US big government.
You see one problem with big government is it creates a lot of government workers – who then have a warped sense about government – they actually have been weaned by it, its kind of like an animal that has been weaned by a human – it will only take food from the human. So Gov workers (take ICE employees) know that most people think that those who work for the government do not have a real job, and they get isolated – kinda like cops with other cops – its the us against them syndrome (take it from me, because I have taught a lot of cops). So this inherent trust of Gov, by a ton of people who get their paychecks from them, skews the citizenry. It starts with – “Oh its okay – the government won’t hurt us! “ Okay – right, – “Not my government” would be the nationalistic cry.
Wrong, wrong and did I say “wrong.” Big government is the number one blight on man kind. Number one.
Some would call me an anarchist – I am not. What I am is a fiscal conservative. We have to make government as small as can be. How do you make government small? De-fund it. In Costa Rica’s case do not mega fund it. Arias wants a mega funded nation – an Arias big government developed nation. What is so good about a developed nation where people are so materialistic they would rather have more stuff than having kids? They do not want kids because the government has made rules (which they all blindly follow) against punishing kids and the kids are intolerable. They are in the parts of California that I maintain a home in.
It has been government institution such as the colleges that have created all this destructive political correctness. They are the ones who are tearing down traditional values by promoting that:
Homosexuality is normal
Abortion is okay to use as birth control (tell me how many of you out there that have ever been a party to abortion has not regretted it).
Motherhood is waste of a woman’s lifeFor all you PC folk out there, listen up:
Homosexuality is perverse
Abortion is murder
And women should retain their femininity and bear childrenSo before you PC types fry me at the stake for saying this – be truthful with your self when answering this question – would not most Ticos agree with the last set of the three statements?
Costa Rica is/was traditional and all you PC types including Arias want to make in non-traditional.
One last lesson before I call it a night, now that I am all wound up:
“The rules were created for the game. The rules were not created for the rules.” – Straight from Diegoism 101
So all you good little rule followers out there who have gotten lost in following the rules need to realize that rules were made to make life better – they were not made for the sake of following them for their sake only.
THINK ABOUT IT for at least a second or two, now reread it.
When they come to take away civil liberties and all the independent militia types that you Gov types like to laugh at and call nuts, who have been defanged by the government taking away their weapons, will no longer be there for you government lovers when the Gov starts to DEMAND cooperation that you are now freely giving, that in the future you may no longer wish to participate in (like the ID chip planted behind your kids ear at birth) – think I am joking eh?
Better think twice befor you blindly accept the cameras because they are tracking “terrorists.” The may consider you as one of them when you say – damn NO – I don’t want my kid to have a tracking devise.
I don’t know, maybe all you politically correct Gov types want tracking devises in your kids – What say you David M. I’m sure Rebe can make some politically correct sense of this conundrum. Do you want tracking devises in your children – do you even have children? I have several and I plan on having more and I hope they never have to make a stand against tracking devises in their kids.
Final line: cameras are far from traditional and the more the Arias nation leans towards the untraditional, is the more it sells out Tico culture. Bueno – another round of cheap electrodomesticos on the president. The problem is he will be handing Ticos the bill to pay, and the price will be paid in Tico culture.
Tsk, tsk Diego, you’re assuming again and you know what they say about that….I guess you were writing your post so you didn’t read mine. No spin necessary. You seem to find my life a point of interest and ground for assumptions. In order to de-mystify things let me say: I do NOT favor big gov’t, I have plenty of views that are not the “typical views”–some diametrically opposed to yours and others not so much…I can respect and enjoy someone’s conversation & company even if we don’t share identical views–You might want to give that one a try….I got married, planned my pregnancies and have a lovely 18 year old daughter that I love dearly. I got divorced and didn’t ask for alimony because I can fend for myself. I adore children and the feeling is mutual–haven’t met a kid I couldn’t win over yet. I would have had more children, except that I couldn’t. I gave up medical school due to my daughter’s health crisis and I wouldn’t change a thing because being a mother has been incredibly central to me and a gift in my life. I also have a few godchildren throughout CR & Cuba. That said, I do not equate having children with being a woman. How many barren women are you willing to call “NON-WOMEN” just because they couldn’t conceive? If they choose not to conceive, then hey, it’s best that they don’t because no child should be born unwanted? I am feminine, do NOT hate men, I’m still very good friends with my ex-husband and his family. I believe in the right for equal opportunities for men and women, NOT that men and women are identical except for some different “parts.” There are a million things that are different and a zillion that are similar between men and women. Just like there are many differences among different people, but in the end, doesn’t everyone deserve the right to be happy and loved or at least the right to give it a try? I also don’t think that God died and left me or anyone else in charge–As far as personal issues go, we all have ourselves, God/Life (or whatever you choose to call it) to face about our life decisions. Although I try to put myself in my neighbor’s shoes to understand his/her struggles and his/her choices, I would never pretend to know exactly how it feels to be him/her so why would I want gov’t determining what and how someone should be or feel? Wouldn’t that be the epitomy of BIG gov’t? Now, Is there anything else you happen to want to pick on while assuming something else about me…? I saw a difference in your posts today, oh well, that was short lived. But I’m an eternal optimist and I hold out hope. Anyway, Can we stick with gov’t actions?
Diego, Instead of me smacking the monitor, this time I gave it a tender pat. Lol. It seems you and I are in almost total agreement. While I share similar sentiments, it should not lead to discrimination, but to concern and compassion. We are slipping down the slippery slope at an alarming rate, and there doesn’t look like there is any end in sight. Some might fry us in the same pan maybe, but we sometimes have to take a stand on our convictions. It takes guts, and I respect that.
Rebeca, you are one tough woman, and I mean that in a good way. Even though we may on some points have differing opinions, you express yourself beautifully, and do not get intimidated. You have my respect as well.
I could be wrong here, but it sounds like we may have shared a common Catholic upbringing.
Come on guys..let’s not turn into Libertarian Luddites over security cameras on public streets. Either we are going to live like the social creatures we are, or we run to the mountains armed to the teeth and live as SOME pioneers did 150 years ago.
Whenever you are on populated public streets, you are already in the public eye. Technology is just carrying that information to another location and recording it. A police state is not defined by its technology, rather it is defined by its laws and how they are applied to the citizens.
Can you come up with a reasonably probable danger to your personal freedoms that would result from Costa Rican police having access to security camera inormation about street activity?
Edited on Oct 19, 2007 06:02
Sprite: Yes, I can think of a few reasons, but in particular, Ticos/as love to make jokes out of gov’t politics, corruption and other improprieties. If you felt that your every word was being recorded and could be used against you (criminally)–well, you might not be so tempted to share them in public. When people can’t express their thoughts (whether we like them or not), what will happen to all of those repressed feelings? I would much rather have them release some frustration joking about their president, the system and corruption than letting it fester. Why adopt a measure that doesn’t accomplish its goals? When I went back to CR in 90’s they were installing circles/roundabouts and I wondered–if we’re removing them in so many place in the US because they were more trouble than helpful, why are they spending all of this money to install them there? Well, some have now been removed in CR, but after a lot accidents and a decent economic cost to CR. If we choose to adopt something, it should be measures that actually works and can “fit” within the context of Costa Rican culture.
Alfred: I don’t take offense to being considered a strong person–they say that what doesn’t kill you, makes you stronger–well, I’m still around and grateful for that gift. On this forum we may not all share some of the same experiences, but we obviously share some similar values (I know, it’s unusual that my immediate Cuban family wouldn’t be Catholic–life is a lovely mixture of things and diversity doesn’t detract, it enhances our lives if we let it). Volumes of books have been written on values and the question lies in what we consider to be “good” and important in our lives because that guides our moral judgment. No one grows without having created a value system of their own along the way. We share many sometimes they are in conflict with the actions & judgments of others, but I don’t pretend to have the “TRUTH.” We all guide our lives and our actions by what we hope are paths that lead to our own perception of what that is. When I was very young (4-5), my dad reminded me that our rights are wonderful things, but that we should always question and balance them when those “rights” start infringing on the rights of others. Stereotyping served our ancestors very well. If we were wondering through ancient woods and saw a new creature that “seemed” like a ferocious predator (based on our ideas of what that may be), it wouldn’t have been a good thing to sit and ponder anything about that animal–stereotyping it as dangerous and running as fast as you could to shelter would have insured your life and the ability to continue to pass you genes on to the next generation. All humans have a tendency to stereotype–we “fill in the blanks” about things and people based on our own schemas, but we can also question ourselves and wonder if our beliefs regarding love, compassion, justice and human dignity are being trampled on when we start to create a “monster” out of the other just because he or she seems different from us. Biodiversity adds immense value to any ecosystem and so does diversity in people and in thoughts. Be well and Pura Vida mi amigo!I leave you with something Alexander Pope said in 1733 and even though he clearly wrote it regarding men, I believe all of humanity can benefit to consider:
“Know then thyself, presume not God to scan,
The proper study of mankind is man,
Plac’d on this isthmus of a middle state,
A being darkly wise, and rudely great:
With too much knowledge for the sceptic side,
With too much weakness for the stoic’s side
He hangs between: in doubt to act or rest,
In doubt his mind or body to prefer;
Born but to die, and reas’ning but to err;
Alike in ignorance, his reason such,
Whether he thinks too little or too much.”And here are my all time favorite Bible verses: “Prove (test) all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil.” Thessalonians 5:21 (notice that’s personal advice)
I Corinthians 13:
“If I speak in the tongues of men and angels,
but have not love,
I have become sounding brass or a tinkling symbol.
And if I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains,
but have not love, I am nothing. …
…For now we see through a mirror in an enigma, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know as also I was fully known.
But now remains faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. ”Some how I can’t see government installed and run cameras lasting very long. The environment in Costa Rica is very hard on metal and electronic equipment. How long did the automatic change machines work at the toll booths?
So true! If the chapulines don’t get them, the climate will! 🙂 Besides, even if the cameras did help “catch” some street thieves or assailants, then what? The system and the laws are the same and these people will be out on the streets with little or no punishment at all. As my dad would say, you can’t tell everyone to be careful and strain the mosquitoes out of the water and then make them swallow the camel. Catching them with cameras, which experience elsewhere does not support, will not deter crime. If the true goal is to deter crime, then there needs to be an effective legal system that actually does this and I don’t think Ticos should loose their civil liberties just so, God only knows who, has some info as to what is going on in the streets of Tiquicia.
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