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First of all, not everyone on this forum is an American. I am, as I have repeatedly said, though some people don’t seem to get it, a Canadian. I also don’t see things in black and white. I am not ashamed to be a Canadian, but I would hardly call myself proud, and I have no immediate plans of surrendering my passport, especially after having waited for nearly four months for the damn thing to get delivered (for which I can thank your darling president and the huge wave of paranoia his administration has sent across the continent with his patriot act and homeland security.) Now, you say your wife talked to some Iraquis. Which Iraquis? I don’t think that all Iraquis are going to be in agreement about the war being waged on their soil, especially after half a million of their compatriots have been wiped off the earth, any more than all Americans or Canadians (that’s right…Canadians. Can you say Canada? Especially now that our dollar is worth more than yours?) are going to agree. I also find your evaluation of Hugo Chavez simplistic. I don’t disagree that he shows authoritarian tendencies but so also does our own prime minister (that’s…Canadian), Stephen Harper (“Steve” to your own Dubya), who has turned out to be quite the fat little Napoleon, and please don’t let me get started about your own Bush (some bushes make me wish I was a little dog), and for the first time in their country’s history, many of the poor in Venezuala are finally beginning to see a decent standard of life and better opportunities for education. This likely does not excuse Chavez’s heavy-handedness, and like the good king of Spain I also wish he would just shut-up, but real life is made up of trade-offs, often unattractive trade-offs, and this is something we all have to live with. And please, don’t get me started about your country’s benevelont military and some of their acts of protection in Central American (eighty thousand dead salvadorenos can’t be wrong). Can you say “Monroe Doctrine.” There is no way to peace. Peace is the way.
You sound like Scott Benson who tried to tell us that we didn’t sponsor death squads in Central America, information that trickled down from his El Salvadoran friend (who turns out to work for the US State Department) who is spreading propaganda about how we helped the Salvadorans. Now you are saying how much we’ve helped the Iraqis? Not the ones I’ve talked to. Not the ones who want to occupation to end – NOW! And even though I am opposed to the fascistic regime under which America now lives, and the prospect of an illegal and immoral war raging for the next 20 years, I have no intentions of surrendering my US passport. It is my RIGHT to oppose these issues. And good for Chavez! He doesn’t want to be a puppet for GWB.
I will not make personal attacks as the left wing such as yourself do. I am sure you have been to Iraq and were told in person by average Iraqis that they want us out. You are someone who by the grace of God was born in a country that allows you to speak your mind(because men and women died protecting that right). Dont preach propaganda,Hugo would put you in Jail for saying that and Saadam would have killed you as Iran would have killed you as well. Please continue to speak your mind and after saying that say thank you men and women for dying so I may. P.S. Go Hug A Tree
Why do you neo-cons always say that stupid phrase, “Go hug a tree?” That is so lame! I happen to know some Iraqis who do not agree with you at all. in fact my friend’s father was the Ambassador from Iraq to the US. Please watch some other news source besides the gov’t controlled propaganda networks, or Faux News which is owned by a fascist.
After the Patriot Act and the nixing of Habeas Corpus in the US, we can all face some “interesting” times when expressing our views in the good old US of A too, no need to be in Venezuela for this to happen (and I’m no Chavez cheerleader!!)…This is getting too boring to have to keep repeating ourselves–so why don’t you read some of the stuff that REAL important folk like Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, and basically ALL of the US Founding Fathers, who would never have asked any of us for our passports, have written about government, dissenting political views and calling government officials on their actions by people like you and me and then ask yourself how come you call yourself an American and do NOT know this….By the way, no need for you to give up your passport either, just pick up a few books, listen to some less compromised press than commercial propaganda for either the right or the left, dust off your critical judgement and put yourself in the Iraqi’s shoes before you consider our US interventions benign….Use some logic for goodness sake!! Did you like watching the World Trade Center toppled and people falling to their deaths from those building? Because if you didn’t feel great grief for those victims and their loved ones on 9/11 then I can understand that you also wouldn’t feel any twinge of pain for Iraqi people that face such death and destruction on an everyday basis for the last 4 1/2 years for whatever the heck reason any lunatic can come up with!! However, if you actually felt horrible about what happened on 9/11 then why is it that you feel it should be such a joy for others?? If you’re a sadist and think Iraqis are ALL masochists then I understand, incoherence is quite another thing….
Edited on Dec 02, 2007 06:36
There we go,name calling. I respect you opinions and thats why we have these freedoms,to disagree with others without being thrown in prison or executed. As to your comment about needing to watch other news channels,I dont need to I see it first hand for myself before making my mind up on anything in life. I also agree with you as well that yes there are some Iraqis that do not want us there,like former Saddam loyalist and Al-Queda and even average Iraqis who want their country to be theirs again. Also please remember who is the biggest killer of Muslims,yep your correct Muslims are.
I agree with what you are saying but you must also look at some of the names you mentioned, would today be considered war-criminals,George Washington during the Revolutionary War did necessary things that today he would be blasted for. Abraham Lincoln was a huge War Criminal,allowing the burning of cities and pilliaging civilians homes and rape of innocent women.Lincoln knew that during the most trying times in the United States that things had to be done for the sake of the Union and it worked.My problem is with people with personal problems with GWB and seem to forget that Rooselvelt (Democrat)interned innocent people based soley on their race and nothing else.People call GWB the biggest war criminal in history and intentionaly forget that their heros committed the same things. Hypocrits are the problem
War will always be a horrific affaire, no matter who is on either side. That’s why some of the most influential American thinkers understood that war is only something you engage in for defense or for a truly major reason NOT for weapons of mass destruction that NEVER existed and are just a justification for other reasons–Not that I think they were perfect–what human being can make that claim–I can’t, can you?We have known that there was a “mistake” about the perceived threat since before June, 2003 yet we’re still there and last I checked it’s now the end of 2007! I believe, like Jefferson said many times, that we must remain watchful of our governmental leaders. It’s every US citizen’s DUTY to watch and judge what is being done in THEIR name–If not, then we’re all accomplices to the injustices and horrors that are forced on those human beings we are murdering each and every day since 3/2003…In the end, there should be no higher command or loyalty than to your own conscience…
You’re wrong to think we are murdering people. We are killing the enemy. There is a difference between murdering and killing, and it is all done in self defense. You are right in one thing that you said and that is we are responsible for who are leaders are, and God willing Americans will not tolerate any of the democrats that are running for President. America is winning the war and it is evident by the silence of the mainstreem media.
Edited on Dec 02, 2007 16:19
I agree with you that we are killing the enemy,with the exception of a few bad seeds,our soliders and marines are doing an excellent job.When I was there we did our best to provide medical treatment and other necessities to the poor but were prevented doing so by the Iraqi govt themselves due to it making them look bad in their own peoples eyes.I would rather fight the enemy over there than over here.
No Iraqi invaded the US, no Iraqi attacked the US, Iraq did NOT have WMD (weapons of mass destruction) in 2003 (even if the US CERTAINLY did and continues to have) and most assuredly Iraq CANNOT have weapons of mass destruction now that we have blown that country to smithereens…Iraq was not our friend (except when we wanted to have military & commercial dealings, but of course, that’s another issue….), but they were not threatening to attack us–So how is it that they were or even worse are NOW our enemy? The only thing we have managed to do is ruin the US economy and put the blood of innocent civilians over our heads…I don’t know what “god” you pray to, but he must not be about justice or righteousness because we have been neither with the Iraqi people…You speak exactly like an extremist Muslim Mullah blinded by hate of the OTHER invoking “god” to obliterate another human being–I’ll pass on that type of “god” and prefer to remember that we are ALL connected (wether you like it or not) and this is exactly the reason why church and state NEED to be separate because NO ONE should justify MURDERING innocent children in the name of some “god.” Religions have been used quite extensively to pillage and kill whomever they considered infidels or pagans (basically, anyone inconvenient), but I do believe that there have been profound messages that have come from prophets, leaders and followers of many faiths too…It’s always our choice to either live by the sword and then inevitably die by it or live trying to leave the world a better place? For those of us that believe in Christianity, we could listen to what Jesus taught about accepting those that were considered the “others” (remember about not throwing that first stone?) and calling us to love above all else since he clearly said that whatever we have not done for one of his little ones we haven’t done for him (and careful, he included prisoners in that list to make a point that he meant ALL people–so why not Muslims?) and that there is no greater gift that we may possess than to LOVE (I Cor 13). Unfortunately, we have been blasting the hell out of Jesus in Iraq! Why not choose to make the world a better place not just for ourselves, but for ALL before you have the nerve to invoke God no matter what your religion may be…
As far as the “mainstream media and the truth” it might be a “silent scream” your hearing from the journalists that wish they could tell the truth, but both are absolute oxymorons (which you can identify since I’ve placed the words in quotes)–They are bought and sold for by corporate America and cannot tell the truth because they have no “corporate conscience,” they seem to be perfectly happy to tell “relative truths.” If you want to know what is actually going on then you need to find NON-commercial news outlets for the information…Here’s a bunch of other oxymorons relative to “this fine mess” we’ve made, this must be a “just war”, we are a “peace force” in the region, we have been “blessed” (this is just my frustration expressed in sarcasm) with a “benevolent despot” in some countries…You feel this is a “fail safe” war and I say to that, you must still believe in “realistic fantasies”….
If we don’t want to fight the enemy here, we should have invaded Saudi Arabia considering the number of Saudis involved with 9/11? We have killed, murdered or any other word for ending life hundreds of thousands of civilians. How many tons of bombs have we dropped on Iraq? The enemy has cleverly drawn us into war and now is killing more Americans than he ever had a chance to, more than he killed on 9/11. My sentiments are not anti-American, they are simply against a war that was started based on at best very, very poor intelligence and at worst pure lies. And my heart truly goes out to our brave soldiers who have in my opinion become pawns in a war being waged for all the wrong reasons. A lot of the soldiers I have talked to and a few are friends are at best very confused about our role there and not to optimistic about Iraq becoming a functioning democracy. You can not role back 5000 years of cultural history not even with the best military in the world.
Some of these posts are indeed frightening — to think that people actually believe we HAVEN’T killed innocent citizens of Iraq only serves to highlight the ignorance surrounding the political aspects of this war. As for the mainstream media? It’s controlled, for God’s sake. Anybody been watching Democracy Now this past week? I can only wonder how long it will be before Amy Goodman is declared an eenemy combatant or a terrorist:
Message From Mike Adams–Natural health researcher with Newstarget and more: see bio at the end.
And of course as Canada’s ‘terror’ laws are harmonized with the US, Canada is in the same leaky boat….
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http://www.newstarget.com/022308.htmlThe end of Free Speech in America has arrived at our doorstep. It’s a new law called the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act, and it is worded in a clever way that could allow the U.S. government to arrest and incarcerate any individual who speaks out against the Bush Administration, the war on Iraq, the Department of Homeland Security or any government agency (including the FDA). The law has already passed the House on a traitorous vote of 405 to 6, and it is now being considered in the Senate where a vote is imminent. All over the internet, intelligent people who care about freedom are speaking out against this extremely dangerous law: Philip Giraldi at the Huffington Post, Declan McCullagh at CNET’s News.com, Kathryn Smith at OpEdNews.com, and of course Alex Jones at PrisonPlanet.com
This bill is the beginning of the end of Free Speech in America. If it passes, all the information sources you know and trust could be shut down and their authors imprisoned. NewsTarget could be taken offline and I could be arrested as a “terrorist.” Jeff Rense at http://www.Rense.com could be labeled a “terrorist” and arrested. Byron Richards, Len Horowitz, Paul Craig Roberts, Greg Palast, Ron Paul and even Al Gore could all be arrested, silenced and incarcerated. This is not an exaggeration. It is a literal reading of the law, which you can check yourself here:
http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc110/h1955_rfs.xmlThe bill states:
‘…ideologically based violence’ means the use, planned use, or threatened use of force or violence by a group or individual to promote the group or individual’s political, religious, or social beliefs…
Note that this means the “planned use of force to promote a political or social belief” would be considered an act of terrorism. This all hinges on the definition of “force,” of course. Based on the loose use of logic in Washington these days, and the slippery interpretation of the meaning of words, “force” could mean:
• A grassroots campaign to barrage Congress with faxes
• A non-violent street protest
• A letter-writing campaign that deluges the Senate with too much mail
• A sit-in protest that blocks access to a business or organization
• A grassroots e-mail campaign that overloads the e-mail servers of any government department or agencyYou get the idea. “Force” could be defined as practically anything. And since the “planned use of force” would be considered a criminal act of terrorism, anyone who simply thinks about a grassroots action campaign would be engaged in terrorist acts.
If you stopped someone on the street and handed them a Bible, for example, this could be considered an act of terrorism (“…use of force to promote the individual’s religious beliefs…”)
If you sent a barrage of angry letters to Washington about global warming and the destruction of the environment by the U.S. military, this could also be considered an act of terrorism (“…to promote the individual’s political beliefs…”)
If you believe in same-sex marriage and you wrote a letter threatening a sit-in protest in front of your state’s capitol building, this could also be considered an act of terrorism, even if you never carried it out! (“…planned use of force to promote a social belief…”)
The United States is on the fast track to fascism, and the Congress is working right alongside this nation’s traitorous leaders to criminalize any thoughts, words or speeches that disagree with current government policies regarding war, terrorism, domestic surveillance and civil liberties. Simply speaking out against the war on Iraq could soon be labeled a crime. Merely thinking thoughts against the war on Iraq could be considered a criminal act.
Must-see video: Naomi Wolf’s lecture on 10 steps to fascism There’s a video lecture you simply MUST watch. It’s by Naomi Wolf, author of The End of America. She covers this topic with great elegance and a deep understanding of history. See her video on YouTube at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWcClick here to see her book on Amazon.com.
In her lecture and book, Naomi reveals the ten steps to fascist, then reveals how the United States of America is pursuing all ten! This S.1959 legislation, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act, represents one of the ten steps to achieve a fascist state!
It is designed to squash all opposition to the State’s ongoing march towards blatant fascism, where secret police and secret prisons dominate the law enforcement landscape, stripping U.S. citizens of all civil liberties and Constitutional protections.
Thoughtcrimes are about to become a reality in the United States of America, and Congress is pushing this through as quickly as possible so that each individual member of Congress can claim that he or she is “against terrorism.” But this bill doesn’t merely target terrorism: It targets anyone who speaks or even thinks thoughts against the U.S. federal government.
With this bill, the U.S. government is officially labeling the People of the United States as criminals. It is drawing a line in the sand and stating that from now on, it’s the Government vs. the People.
If we don’t stop this bill from becoming law, we are lost as a nation.
There is no turning back from tyranny once the government turns its own citizens into criminals, enforcing only the thoughts, ideas, words and speeches that it approves or tolerates. Everything is at stake here!
Take action now, or lose your freedoms forever If you live in the U.S., it is urgent that you call your senators right now and voice your strong opposition against this extremely dangerous law.
Here are the phone numbers for the U.S. Senate switchboard:
1-877-851-6437
1-800-833-6354
1-888-355-3588
1-866-220-0044
1-866-808-0065
1-877-762-8762
1-866-340-9281
1-800-862-5530How to do this:
1) Make sure you know the names of your Senators.
2) Call the U.S. Senate switchboard using one of the numbers above.
3) Ask to speak to the offices of your Senators.
4) Tell them you are strongly opposed to S. 1959, the Violent Radicalization and Homegrown Terrorism Prevention Act
5) Ask for their fax number.
6) Follow up your phone call with a written, signed letter that you fax to your Senators.Stopping this bill from becoming law is the single most important thing all Americans can do right now. If this becomes law, all free speech about health freedom, the crimes of the FDA, the crimes of the Bush Administration, America’s role in global warming and any other topics could all be criminalized. YOU could be labeled a terrorist, kidnapped by government thugs, taken from your home, thrown in a secret prison, denied access to legal representation, denied due process and essentially “disappeared” into a system of such corruption and evil that it now begins to blatantly mirror Nazi Germany.
Think it couldn’t happen here? It’s happening right now! This is exactly how it happened in Nazi Germany. First, burn the Reichstag and blame it on the “enemy.” Pass new police state laws. Disarm the people. Spread fear. Erect secret prisons and secret police. Call anyone who disagrees with you a “traitor.” Control the mainstream media. Sound familiar? This is all happening right now in the United States of Amerika, and if we don’t work to stop it, this nation will rapidly devolve into a fascist police state where no one is truly free.
We are but a few small steps away from it right now. All it would take is one dirty bomb in a major U.S. city. Bush would declare Martial Law and take over the National Guard. Troops on the streets. Anyone who writes a blog against the government would be arrested. Authors of “alternative” books would be kidnapped and have their books burned on the street. It could all happen at the stroke of a pen. The infrastructure for tyranny is in place right now, just waiting to be invoked.
Our best weapons: Non-violent protest and speaking the truth How can we fight back against this onslaught of tyranny? We must use what remaining free speech freedoms we have right now to alert our fellow citizens to what’s happening. We must rise up and tell the truth while urging our representatives in Washington to resist the temptation to vote for more “anti-terrorism” legislation that only works to enslave the American people.
We must use our phones, faxes, emails and blogs to rally our friends, family members and anyone who will listen to oppose these police state laws, and we must organize mass (peaceful) protests against this government that is attempting to marginalize the rights and freedoms of our People.
We must not be lulled into a sense of false security by the purveyors of hatred and fear — the Sean Hannitys, Rush Limbaughs and Bill O’Reillys of the world. Instead, we must listen to the voices of freedom. In terms of the upcoming election for U.S. President, there is only one candidate that actually believes in freedom: Ron Paul. He needs your support to win: http://www.RonPaul2008.com
All the other candidates are nothing more than tyrants of different political affiliations. Ron Paul is the only candidate that truly understands the fundamentals of freedom. That’s why he’s the only real choice for our next President. Can you imagine what Hillary Clinton would do with the police state powers that Bush has now created? That’s the danger of all laws that centralize power in Washington: It’s not necessarily what today’s President will do with them, but what some future President will do with them.
That’s why it’s never good enough to say, “Well, we intend to only apply these laws to terrorists and not to U.S. citizens at home.” That may be the intention right NOW, but virtually all such laws creep into areas of enforcement for which they were never intended. Just look at the application of RICO laws which were originally designed to fight organized crime operations but are now applied to virtually anyone (and yet they are never applied to Big Pharma, which operates almost exactly like organized crime!). All these anti-terrorism laws run the danger of expanding in enforcement to the point where they are applied against the People of this country. At first, it’s only illegal for “terrorists” to think thought crimes, but before long, it’s illegal for anyone to think those same thoughts. That when the domestic arrests of authors, journalists, bloggers and thought leaders will kick off, and the country will plunge itself into outright tyrannical fascism.
Again, we’re on the track right now. This is happening, folks. You’re LIVING through an amazing chapter of history right now. You’re actually witnessing the downfall of a free nation and the rise of a superpower fascist state. You’re actually part of it.
When it’s all over, will you look back and realize you did nothing? Or will you now take a stand against tyranny and oppose these dangerous laws and lawmakers who threaten the Constitutional freedoms of you and your children?
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About the author: Mike Adams is a natural health researcher and author with a strong interest in personal health, the environment and the power of nature to help us all heal He has authored more than 1,500 articles and dozens of reports, guides and interviews on natural health topics, reaching millions of readers with information that is saving lives and improving personal health around the world. Adams is an honest, independent journalist and accepts no money or commissions on the third-party products he writes about or the companies he promotes. In 2007, Adams launched EcoLEDs, a maker of super bright LED light bulbs that are 1000% more energy efficient than incandescent lights. He also launched an online retailer of environmentally-friendly products (BetterLifeGoods.com) and uses a portion of its profits to help fund non-profit endeavors. He’s also a successful software entrepreneur, having founded a well known email marketing software company whose technology currently
powers the NewsTarget email newsletters. Adams is currently the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a 501(c)3 non-profit, and practices nature photography, Capoeira, Pilates and organic gardening. Known on the ‘net as ‘the Health Ranger,’ Adams shares his ethics, mission statements and personal health statistics at http://www.HealthRanger.orgMaravilla, As always, I’m indebted to you…thank you for posting such important information…I have already written to my Senators and will continue to follow this. Frankly, even when I felt the US took on doctrines that were less than charitable to other countries, I always felt a certain safety within the US. After 9/11 that was one of the things everyone commented, you couldn’t feel sure anymore that havoc wouldn’t strike us at home and everyone has wanted to feel “safe” again by giving up exactly that which grants us that possibility—our protected freedoms…It’s like blindly running into the arms of a sweet looking grandma even when those perceiving the furry tail under her gown try to warn us that there’s only a most ferocious wolf awaiting….I think each and everyone of us has a duty to try to do something to stop this collective dementia and if all fails, heaven help us all….
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