- This topic has 1 reply, 11 voices, and was last updated 11 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Hmmm, I guess Maravilla can’t get past personal insults. That certainly doesn’t spur my interest in videos M suggests.
As for watching videos, up here in Arenal internet speed makes that difficult and internet outage (most of Sunday and part of Monday) doesn’t help.
David made excellent points and food for thought.
[quote=”DavidCMurray”][quote=”VictoriaLST”]
When Israel was granted statehood, no one asked Muslims to leave the new country. [/quote]Well, you have this partially right, Victoria. It’s true that “. . . no one [b]asked[/b] [i][emphasis added][/i] Muslims to leave . . .”. They were dispossessed of their rightfully owned property, property which as a group they had occupied for many generations, and driven off at gunpoint. If you think that the entire Palestinian population decided of their own free will to mass together in Gaza, you clearly have no grasp of the historical facts.
If the Jewish people have any legal or moral right to a homeland (and I strongly assert that they do), then the Palestinians have the same right being, in fact, equally human as any other ethnic group. That radical factions of the Muslim population see the route to satisfaction of their needs and wants lying in armed conflict hardly makes them unique.
[/quote]Their homeland should be where ever they live or choose to live. They are the only group that in nearly 2000 yrs, does not feel at home and seperate themselves, from every home they live in, often when said home is welcoming to them…This is something that Chesterton and Belloc noted, while decrying the jews persecution, that their time, at Hitler’s hands.
Todays radical is one that is tired of being pushed around and has siad enough is enough and struck out, wrong often, as it is (civilians are never a legit target).Right to on free will and choosing to live.
Recall, that for centuries, Palestine was in the hands of the Ottoman Empire-comprised of many ethnic groups, loosely untied by Islam, though varying forms (Sunni, Shite,etc).
After WWI, they were placed under a mandate and the land divided between colonialistic France and UK.
At the urging of jewish interests in the USA, UK, after WWII, the UK allowed or transported 1000’s of Jews to Palestine, though emmigration had been trickling for 200 yrs prior, not enough to cause friction and for the most part, people got along.
After WWII, the UN and UK/USA decided to divide the land up, never asking the people there for much input, nor where to draw lines on the map (hence, Iraq and Kuwait are really false nations, no one asked for them to be divided nor where nor how).
INflux of many, many Jews into Palestine, many educated and heavily armed.
Backed by the powers noted above. The USA has ability to block security council decisions single handed.
Now 60 yrs later, we have millions of jews, again, heavily financed and armed…violating UN mandates and agreements.
No input from arabs/Muslims and no one agreed to the UN mandates in the 1940’s,let alone now.
People that lived for centuries are told where they are to live, how is in charge, where boundries are,etc.
Jews control the weapons, also, water and roads….the jewish populace now has to go armed to the teeth anywhere and part of buying property is the question “does it havea fall out shelter”.
great way to live…..
Behind it all is a man centered ideology of zionism, many of its proponents manipulate religion, but often are not too religious or even, non-beleivers….
back that up with kooky Christians of the last 200 yrs that “discovered” theology somehow not discovered in 1800 yrs prior, of the Rapture and the jews being allowed into Palestine (hence, when they can force this, they get to be sucked up in the clouds).
For more on this, many, many articles by Catholic writers debunking the whole thing…….
Luther, Calvin and others did not teach this, either…..many taught that the rise of Israel, at the End Times, would usher in WWIII, antichrist ruling from Israel/Jerusalem, initially, and many bad things……..side note-some founders of the PLO where Christians…..
[quote=”maravilla”]i feel only marginally better that someone else recognizes how asleep the masses are. [/quote]
and most chose to be, for not to be, one has to deal with the world as it is and that would require one to take action…..easier to beleive the pablem being shoveled out, while watching the bombs drop on TV and shoveling GMO food into ones mouth…
so typical of right wingers to say that pointing out the obvious is an insult. love your thought process. excuses, excuses, excuses. you are probably a very nice person, but truly, you have no grasp of this issue. if you consider that an insult, then it’s your problem for not being better informed on an issue that has driven the media, and been a divisive ploy for decades. my suggestion would be for you to not only watch the video i posted, but to watch Death in Gaza — a riveting documentary about a british journalist who went there to interview both Palestinian and Isarael children but was shot to death by the Israelis as he was holding a white flag. you do remember Rachel Corey, right? she was run over by an Israeli bulldozer as she protested them razing yet another Palestinian home. in this age of knowledge that is available at the click of a mouse, there is hardly any excuse anymore for not seeing both sides of this picture. your opening statement on this topic suggests that you do in fact have a particular prejudice that probably spawns from nothing more than complete ignorance.
[quote=”VictoriaLST”]Let me get this straight: There is an 85+ year policy of genocide, but the UN is OK with that? Admit them to observer status anyway?[/quote]
Genocide is by jews mainly, and they are fully recognized and supported political state……..so yes, the UN is ok with that…….also, is more like 65 yrs…..bear in mind, pre 1941, the jews and arabs in Palestine mainly got along fine, save for a few events here and there………does that not happen in the USA? blacks vs whites vs hispanics and on and on….Limbaugh, your hero, made a career out of the communist technique of false A vs B thinking, polorizing people into 2-and only 2 allowed-camps and then ranting on those “sources of all evils” defined as “liberals” and “democrats” and ignoring his “side”……
Result-its all a complete farce and phony……..
David M notes there are more going on then we see and hear and he is right……[quote=”DavidCMurray”][quote=”VictoriaLST”]Let me get this straight: There is an 85+ year policy of genocide, but the UN is OK with that? Admit them to observer status anyway?[/quote]
You’re talking about the Palestinians, right, Victoria? Let me just point out that Germany, Turkey, Iraq, Russia, Japan and Serbia, among others, are full members of the U.N. Like our own history [i]vis a vis[/i] the native American population, none of their histories is exactly pristine pure on the genocide scale.
And while the Palestinians’ attitudes and behavior toward the Jews in Israel has certainly (and just maybe understandably) been hostile, you can hardly characterize their behavior to date as “genocidal”.[/quote]
True, not to the level of:
-USA treatment of native AMericans (I am a scant part of that group)
-Turkey’s treatment of the Armenians
-Jews treatment of non-jews (or quislings of the evangelical mark)
-Russia pograms against anyone they do not like, now or last 500+ yrs
-japanese treatment of non-japanese
-ditto for China and esp, anyone wanting non-communism…..[quote=”maravilla”]many historians believe, and have stated, that the treatment of the Palestinians is in fact genocidal and that what the Israelis have done can only be described as ethnic cleansing. if you didn’t know that, Victoria, then you are way behind the curve on this topic and you need to get educated before you speak.[/quote]
The Palestinians are a thorn to national israel and as the Talmud teaches that non-Jews are worse then animals,etc,etc-they are “allowed” to act and do what they have done……the arab is not going away and out-breeding the jew,who aborts, has less kids and contracepts far more. That is why the IDF has in times, dumped porn in the arabs yard, to pervert and destroy the family….and when bullets cant do the trick, more subtle means are used. SOme yrs back, there were stories circulating that the IDF wanted to buy race-specific weapns, biological, but did not as it would kill them to, many arabs and jews being of the same genetic stock, via Abraham and 1000’s of yrs of regional living and inter-marrying…..
[quote=”VictoriaLST”]And, lets see. I am witless, behind the curve, ignorant, uninformed, foolish, misinformed, clueless, .[/quote]
BINGO! most of the time!:D
[quote=”sprite”][quote=”VictoriaLST”]So, we are staying on topic? No more invective? No more personal insults? That would be a pleasure.
First, have we decided that Israel has the right to exist?[/quote]
Depends upon the definition of “right to exist”. They certainly dont have the right to exist at the expense of others.
Another question is whether or not Israelis can learn to get along with their neighbors. Their behavior, historically, has pissed off their neighbors.[/quote]
People have a right to exist, not countries per se and if said nation is arrogant, dangerous, then no…….
[quote=”VictoriaLST”]So, we are staying on topic? No more invective? No more personal insults? That would be a pleasure.
First, have we decided that Israel has the right to exist?[/quote]
fair enough, and no, we have not decided who exists or not….nor are we in agreement on who, what, when there…….
Working on M’s video and its slow going with this internet trouble.
Interesting though that it jumps right over WWII.
So far, Zionists, that evil, good-for-nothing bunch, bought up land and evicted the tenants living on it (well, they owned it). Then the Brits took Palestine from the Turks during WWI. Using “right of conquest”, which, in world history, is as good as any argument, they issued Balfour.
The creation of Zionism is what started all of this and that predates 1948 by many many decades. The palestinians live in fear every second of their lives — they are locked in an open concentration camp that is nothing but rubble in some areas. they are bombed, shot at, bulldozed. there are raids on their homes in the middle of the night on some false pretense and then their homes are bulldozed to the ground. the teenage boys throw rocks. the israelis throw rockets. you can certainly see how they become suicide bombers; you probably would too if you life was reduced to that of a homeless, starving dog. why NOT become a martyr if you have nothing whatsoever to look forward to in your life? the jewish settlements are completely illegal under international law, but that doesn’t stop anybody from encroaching on land that isn’t theirs. who’s going to stop them? it’s a horrid, sick, and sad situation and we as consciousness-raised individuals will no longer sit by and watch this genocide and keep our mouths closed. and that is why i support CR’s position on this issue. they are absolutely doing the right thing for everyone.
Well, they finally mentioned – barely – WWII.
Looking back at Balfour: The original document gave a much larger portion of land to Jews. Then the Brits decided to create Trans-Jordan, which became Jordan, taking away 80% of what had been promised as a Jewish State. The video doesn’t mention that and it must have been a problem.
Also interesting is that the video uses a lot of inflammatory language. Up to 1957 now, and Israelis are still usually called ‘Zionists’.
Here is an easy solution; educate people to dump their stupid contentious religions in exchange for more rational and realistic world views. It’ll never happen in our life times because religion, like debt, has been firmly entrenched in the world for control. But in the meantime, I can’t keep quiet when I see Zionist apologists parroting corporate media lies.
If I must pick a side in this insane contest, I will side with the oppressed Palestinians on every issue. But I have to be careful to temper my emotions. There are Israelis who oppose their Zionist government. As always, the real monsters are the Israeli elitists.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
