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camby, you’ve not said where you live now, but every place has its hazards. If it’s not earthquakes all along the Pacific rim, it’s wildfires all over the west, it’s tornadoes in the midwest, or it’s hurricanes in the entire eastern seaboard.
Yesterday’s earthquake injured and killed fewer folks than most such tragedies in the U.S. True, the one located near Poas three years ago was much worse but, as compared to the losses occasioned by Hurricane Katrina, it was small potatoes.
So c’mon down and see what the good life is all about.
Social Security Trust Fund? You be trippin’ Dave. The fund is going broke, it loans money to the government by buying T bonds, they are going to have to shore it up somehow. If it is secure, why don’t our congressional officials have to retire on it?
Victoria, there’s no question that the SS Trust Fund needs to be strengthened, but that’s not the matter under discussion here.
The law, as written, requires that income to the SS Trust Fund in excess of current requirements be invested in Treasury securities. To suggest that some Congressional pay increase was funded from the Social Security Trust Fund is ludicrous. Those funds cannot be diverted for any such purpose.
The Congressional retirement system, like other governmental retirement systems, is separate from the Social Security system. It’s hardly unique in that respect.
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[b]Interesting sidenote:[/b] The law that requires that income to the Social Security Trust Fund in excess of current needs be invested in U.S. Treasury securities, actually distorts the magnitude of the national debt. And as the economy continues to improve and folks go back to work, the national debt will actually increase as contributions to the Social Security Trust Fund increase and are invested in those Treasury obligations.
When the national debt is computed, those obligations (Treasury securities) which are held by the Social Security Trust Fund are counted as liabilities, as I suppose they should be. But when the government’s balance sheet is prepared, the assets of the Social Security Trust Fund are not included to offset Treasury’s liabilities. So the deficit appears to be much greater than it is. The liabilities are shown but not the assets.
No other country keeps its accounts this way.
Imagine if you were somehow required to keep a bank account balance of $100 and that you also had a credit card balance of (say) $5,000. If you prepared a financial statement, wouldn’t you show the $100 in the bank as an asset to offset, in part, your credit card liability? If you owe $5,000 and have $100 isn’t your net worth actually -$4,900 and not -$5,000?
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]camby, you’ve not said where you live now, but every place has its hazards. If it’s not earthquakes all along the Pacific rim, it’s wildfires all over the west, it’s tornadoes in the midwest, or it’s hurricanes in the entire eastern seaboard.
Yesterday’s earthquake injured and killed fewer folks than most such tragedies in the U.S. True, the one located near Poas three years ago was much worse but, as compared to the losses occasioned by Hurricane Katrina, it was small potatoes.
So c’mon down and see what the good life is all about.
[/quote]Live in NC, USA
wife is very nervous about leaving the country, in part due to health issues, in part, that USA mentality the C/S america is poor and shoddy…….still want to come, but need to make sure area I planned to stay/visit is not too terribly damaged, planned to come 3rd week of October….Playas Del Coco area…[quote=”VictoriaLST”]Social Security Trust Fund? You be trippin’ Dave. The fund is going broke, it loans money to the government by buying T bonds, they are going to have to shore it up somehow. If it is secure, why don’t our congressional officials have to retire on it?[/quote]
I am aged 41, do not have much hope to ever see that money…wife was on SSA disability for a few yrs, told her to be glad she got it when we needed it……but likely, will not see that money again……one of reasons considering some very modest investments in CR….fund my own retirement, in part at least and if a profit at certain level, perhaps, fund some part or F/T CR living:lol::D
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]Les, I think you’ve misrepresented the 2009-10 Social Security payment amount. SS payments are recalculated each year based upon the computed change in the cost of living. For the previous year, the cost of living did not increase. That’s why there was no increase in 2009, not because it was “frozen”.
Anyone is, of course, welcome to dispute the actual change in the cost of living, but there is a computation built into the law and that’s what Social Security must be based upon.
[/quote]You are correct.
[quote=”costaricabill”]David – ’09 was my first full year on SS, so I was really paying attention to it. Congress voted themselves a raise that year and the funding language was that their increase would be paid for by the freeze on COL increases for recipients of SS.
I couldn’t believe what I read – i think I may be able to find it.[/quote]Here are the facts about the congressional pay raises. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/22/chain-email/chain-e-mail-says-congress-raised-own-salaries-whi/
They really need to change that to require them to vote [b]FOR[/b] their raises.
[quote=”costaricabill”]David – ’09 was my first full year on SS, so I was really paying attention to it. Congress voted themselves a raise that year and the funding language was that their increase would be paid for by the freeze on COL increases for recipients of SS.
I couldn’t believe what I read – [b]i think I may be able to find it.[/b] [Emphasis added.][/quote]Well . . .
bill, if you “. . . couldn’t believe what [you] read . . .”, you also shouldn’t have.
We are NOT in a recovery.
The US government has already gone into default.
There is no way that an economic collapse will NOT happen.
Social Security has a limited life span once that collapse happens.
It is a total waste of time voting for the criminal class of US politicians because there is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs.The game is essentially over but a lot of you do not know it yet. Many do and we are already crowding for the exit before TSHTF.
So many interesting, well thought out comments. That’s one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much. As for me and mine, I saw the financial cliff coming some time ago and reasoned that there had to be a better place to ride it out, which led me (us) to planning our escape to Costa Rica.
So interesting that in the US we have only paralyzed politicians that know, in the end, the only way out of the mess, or at least to make a dent in it, is to have the public kick in and contribute. No one has the stones to say it as it would cost them their seat in whatever body the are in. If I was asked to kick in $500 a year, or whatever, and if the rest of the country was particpating to whatever extent they could, I would not like it, but would do it to save what’s left. Never going to happen, though. Another novel thought would be to sell debt bonds (ala WWI and WWII bonds) but nobody is smart enough to do that, either.
Just like when a person runs up a credit card and the balance gets big, the only way to knock it down is chip away at it as best you can. I think a few of us may have been there before and it hurts a bit, but when the balance goes down or hits Zip, life is better.
Too little, too late and I fear the worst, by far, is yet to come. Give us a President and a congress with stones and we may have a ghost of a chance of not being financially trampled.
Interesting stuff, sprite. Please say more . . .
What’s the specific data that proves, “We are NOT in a recovery.” (Specific data . . . numbers)
And exactly, precisely do you mean by “default”? What are the data that demonstrate that “The US government has already gone into default.” Just what do you mean by “default”? What’s the source of your hard data? What are the numbers?
How can you predict in advance that something (anything) “. . . will NOT happen”? What’s your proof? And when won’t it happen? 2014? 2024? 2114? 2124?
What is the exact “. . . limited lifespan . . .” of Social Security once this inevitable collapse happens? What will happen if the funding mechanism, eligibility criteria, benefit formulas, etc are changed? What if only one? What if all three? Please give us a date specific.
If you think that a vote for one or the other party makes no difference to you, to me, or to Goldman Sachs, then don’t vote. You have every right to abstain. My guess is that it’d be better for the outcome.
If “Many . . . are already crowding for the exit . . .”, just where are they headed — specifically? And how many? Surely you must have numbers, right? You wouldn’t just make this stuff up, would you? (This isn’t the “headed for a new life on a distant asteroid” bunch, is it? Or maybe it is!)
(Or is all this just another “Chicken Little” rant?)
[quote=”beansandbooks”]So many interesting, well thought out comments. That’s one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much. As for me and mine, I saw the financial cliff coming some time ago and reasoned that there had to be a better place to ride it out, which led me (us) to planning our escape to Costa Rica.
So interesting that in the US we have only paralyzed politicians that know, in the end, the only way out of the mess, or at least to make a dent in it, is to have the public kick in and contribute. No one has the stones to say it as it would cost them their seat in whatever body the are in. If I was asked to kick in $500 a year, or whatever, and if the rest of the country was particpating to whatever extent they could, I would not like it, but would do it to save what’s left. Never going to happen, though. Another novel thought would be to sell debt bonds (ala WWI and WWII bonds) but nobody is smart enough to do that, either.
Just like when a person runs up a credit card and the balance gets big, the only way to knock it down is chip away at it as best you can. I think a few of us may have been there before and it hurts a bit, but when the balance goes down or hits Zip, life is better.
Too little, too late and I fear the worst, by far, is yet to come. Give us a President and a congress with stones and we may have a ghost of a chance of not being financially trampled.[/quote]
Any money those criminals in Washington get their hands on is given directly to their criminal friends on Wall Street…the same crooks who have been harvesting this country and its people for decades. Why on earth would you want to volunteer any of your hard earned wealth to that mafia government and elite? They are going to take it from you eventually anyway if you stick around long enough.
Get thee hence from the vortex of this collapse and find a place to burrow and hide on the fringe of the empire. I am in a big hurry to do this as well.
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]Interesting stuff, sprite. Please say more . . .
What’s the specific data that proves, “We are NOT in a recovery.” (Specific data . . . numbers)
And exactly, precisely do you mean by “default”? What are the data that demonstrate that “The US government has already gone into default.” Just what do you mean by “default”? What’s the source of your hard data? What are the numbers?
How can you predict in advance that something (anything) “. . . will NOT happen”? What’s your proof? And when won’t it happen? 2014? 2024? 2114? 2124?
What is the exact “. . . limited lifespan . . .” of Social Security once this inevitable collapse happens? What will happen if the funding mechanism, eligibility criteria, benefit formulas, etc are changed? What if only one? What if all three? Please give us a date specific.
If you think that a vote for one or the other party makes no difference to you, to me, or to Goldman Sachs, then don’t vote. You have every right to abstain. My guess is that it’d be better for the outcome.
If “Many . . . are already crowding for the exit . . .”, just where are they headed — specifically? And how many? Surely you must have numbers, right? You wouldn’t just make this stuff up, would you? (This isn’t the “headed for a new life on a distant asteroid” bunch, is it? Or maybe it is!)
(Or is all this just another “Chicken Little” rant?)[/quote]
David,
You must be spending a lot of time with your back to the world or your head in the sand because none of these things take much time to research.1. Recovery: http://www.globalresearch.ca/gap-between-rich-and-poor-is-widening-the-us-poverty-report-and-obamas-economic-recovery/
The poverty report released Wednesday by the US Census Bureau is another shattering refutation of the Obama Administration’s claims to be overseeing an economic “recovery” and working to improve the lives of ordinary Americans.
The report revealed that the ranks of those classified by the government as poor remained at record highs in 2011, while the gap between rich and poor widened further. Some 46.2 million people remained below the official poverty line in 2011, the highest number in more than half a century. The 15.0 percent poverty rate, essentially unchanged from 2010, was the highest since 1983.2. Bankruptcy is a legal status of an insolvent person or an organization, that is, one who cannot repay the debts they owe to creditors.
http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2007/09/did-usa-declare-bankruptcy.html
In 1933, President Roosevelt formally declared bankruptcy to the US public. He told them that the US government was defaulting on its promise that dollars were backed with gold. He demanded that US citizens turn over their gold in exchange for worthless dollars.
Corporations can continue operations even though they are bankrupt. As long as enough interest payments are made to satisfy the creditors, operations may continue. Corporations can operate for years while in bankruptcy protection. As long as the creditors deem it to be in their best interests, they allow operations to continue during the bankruptcy reorganization.Similarly, the US government has continued operations even though it’s formally bankrupt. Technically, the US government has ceased to exist. Its current operations are one protracted bankruptcy proceeding. Its operations vaguely resemble its original structure, so the details of the formal bankruptcy are kept hidden. Interest payments (income taxes) are made to the creditors, so operations are allowed to continue. The US government is allowed to continue to exist with permission from its creditor, the international banking cartel.
3. Americans leaving US in record numbers
http://rt.com/usa/news/leaving-us-america-country-289/
Ever dream of leaving it all behind and heading out of America? You’re not the only one. A new study shows that more US citizens than ever before are living outside of the country.4.Social Security systematically destroyed by the Federal Reserve
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-federal-reserve-is-systematically-destroying-social-security-and-the-retirement-plans-of-millions-of-americansAnd finally, it is my position that voting is worse than a waste of time. Voting just encourages the crooks in Washington DC.
[quote=”camby”][quote=”DavidCMurray”]camby, you’ve not said where you live now, but every place has its hazards. If it’s not earthquakes all along the Pacific rim, it’s wildfires all over the west, it’s tornadoes in the midwest, or it’s hurricanes in the entire eastern seaboard.
Yesterday’s earthquake injured and killed fewer folks than most such tragedies in the U.S. True, the one located near Poas three years ago was much worse but, as compared to the losses occasioned by Hurricane Katrina, it was small potatoes.
So c’mon down and see what the good life is all about.
[/quote]Live in NC, USA
wife is very nervous about leaving the country, in part due to health issues, in part, that USA mentality the C/S america is poor and shoddy…….still want to come, but need to make sure area I planned to stay/visit is not too terribly damaged, planned to come 3rd week of October….Playas Del Coco area…[/quote]Well first, October is the craziest, rainiest month of the year…not the month I’d choose for my first visit. Better would be the middle of November. But here are some thoughts for your visit….show her the “Hollywood” part of Costa Rica in Escazu…go stop at the outstanding CIMA hospital and grab a starbucs on the Avenida de Escasu. THEN go up to the Peace Park for a great way to see “lots” of Costa Rica in only two hours. On the way to the Pacific drop into Atenas, a great little Costa Rican town with a good supply of expats living happy lives. Eat in Atenas at Antano’s and be charmed by the young owners. Don’t just huddle in a beach community and think you’ve seen much of Costa Rica! Good luck and may your wife be utterly charmed!
sprite:
1. There’s no question that the benefits of the past three economic recoveries have gone primarily to the top one percent. Those recoveries include the one in the second Reagan term, the one during Clinton’s term, and the current one. That does not mean, however, that there has been no recovery. Millions of new private sector jobs have been created. The stock markets are at all-time highs. If the current recovery, however slow, isn’t a real recovery than neither were the two previous, and we must have been mired in the economy of the early 1980s (which isn’t so) ever since.
2. Please explain just what the U.S. government is currently in default of. What is it not paying?
3. Some folks have always sought to migrate. We are among them. And maybe there are more and more joining us, but the net change due to emigration/immigration is definitely a positive number for the U.S. Far more are traveling in than out.
Remember that while more Americans may be leaving than ever, stated in absolute numbers, there are also more Americans. One one-thousandth of one percent (or whatever) becomes an ever-larger number the more Americans there are. The denominator is critical to the analysis.
4. The Federal Reserve is hardly the only factor in the weakening status of the Social Security Trust Fund. Had the absurdly wealthy not been given yet another advantage years ago, the Trust Fund would be in much better shape than it is today, after decades of mismanagement. Worse, there’s still time for the crooks in Washington to resolve matters.
Please don’t vote. The sky is due to fall on election day and you don’t want to be caught outside.
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