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Sprite:
I would not volunteer anything-it would have to be done in a blind trust that was not accessible under any circumstances by any government agency except a one person department set up to monitor and periodically retire portions of our outstanding debt. I would make the bill so onerous to politicians that any tweaking would be grounds for immediate dismissal and imprisonment and I would include the President in the codicil. Only by a majority of the popular vote in a country wide referendum could the funds be used for anything else.
I don’t see any of the above happening and as I noted prior, there are not enough stones in our government to take the severe actions necessary to retire our debt, which, I would imagine as of this writing, is 18 trillion dollars or more.
In business, where I have spent almost all of my career, including the last 12 in business for myself, one has to from time to time take unpopular actions and/or make the tough decisions to keep the ship floating and under steerage.
We have too many Captains and nobody in the engine compartment.
David
I am curious to know what your thoughts are regarding
the economic future of the U.S.?? short term
and the fiat currency??
would also like to hear scott’s short term views
how long can we actually kick the can down the road??
at what point do we implode???
I hope Obama wins, this way he can actually bring us that much closer to the collapse.. romney would just kick the can further down the road
you see if we allow this major correction to happen which is organic
we can then rebuild again
but goverment keeps propping up artificially
so at what point do we implode
[b]16 trillion[/b]
[size=200][b]20 trillion[/b]
[/size]
[[size=]b]50 trillion[/b][/size][size=200][/size]???????????
or do we just arrive at a point and say
we are NOT paying our debt??
I did this once with american express many many years ago.
I was in a bind that was put on me with a partner.. and owed them almost $50,000
american express wanted their money NOW and I said I will pay them over time because I don’t have it
they kept aggressively trying to collect when it came to the point I just said
screw you guys I am NOT paying
and guess what
I never paid them. :shock::shock::shock:
here is a great video explaining world collapse in 3 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOzR3UAyXao&feature=related
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]sprite:
1. There’s no question that the benefits of the past three economic recoveries have gone primarily to the top one percent. Those recoveries include the one in the second Reagan term, the one during Clinton’s term, and the current one. That does not mean, however, that there has been no recovery. Millions of new private sector jobs have been created. The stock markets are at all-time highs. If the current recovery, however slow, isn’t a real recovery than neither were the two previous, and we must have been mired in the economy of the early 1980s (which isn’t so) ever since.
2. Please explain just what the U.S. government is currently in default of. What is it not paying?
3. Some folks have always sought to migrate. We are among them. And maybe there are more and more joining us, but the net change due to emigration/immigration is definitely a positive number for the U.S. Far more are traveling in than out.
Remember that while more Americans may be leaving than ever, stated in absolute numbers, there are also more Americans. One one-thousandth of one percent (or whatever) becomes an ever-larger number the more Americans there are. The denominator is critical to the analysis.
4. The Federal Reserve is hardly the only factor in the weakening status of the Social Security Trust Fund. Had the absurdly wealthy not been given yet another advantage years ago, the Trust Fund would be in much better shape than it is today, after decades of mismanagement. Worse, there’s still time for the crooks in Washington to resolve matters.
Please don’t vote. The sky is due to fall on election day and you don’t want to be caught outside.
[/quote]
davidd, my expectation for the U.S. (and maybe the world) economy is actually pretty unfavorable. For at least as long as we persist in enriching those who could never benefit from their already accumulated wealth at the expense of everyone else, things can only get worse.
I have long believed that the U.S. should take specific, concrete steps to pay the national debt way, way down or eliminate it. There’s no question it is a drag on the economy.
The problem lies, I believe, in the political stalemate that characterizes everything. Those most advantaged pull all the strings. In the meantime, deficit spending is the only available means of seeing to the legitimate needs of an enormous majority of the human beings involved and I’m not just talking about direct welfare. Try to get around without the U.S. government’s support of highways, ports, airports, air traffic, etc. Try to deliver your goods or take delivery.
You can argue, albeit not convincingly, that we should just let people starve in the name of fiscal responsibility, but that attitude only works if we’re talking about [b]you[/b] and not about “them”.
In the words of an old Motown song, “Everybody’s somebody’s baby.”
You and I have never met, and so frankly I don’t care if you live or die. It means nothing to me. Your family may have a different opinion on the matter, as they may well about my own survival. So whose needs do we cease to address??
been trying to tel lthe wife, stop worrying about the money in the money market account, need to get some of that offshore, somewhere safe, clean, well run and not in the USA. Writing on the wall, told her just like many saw in Germany in the 30’s, those that were blindly optimistic and “that can never happen” lived thru a nightmare, many of course, did not live at all…..esp minorites in Germany and surrounding….plus, USA laws can seize your goods anyway (ie, Patriot Act).
Sprite, well said…
Biggest stop to me of moving out of USA, anywhere, is I dont have any thing to do for a living…..many natiosn are strict, like CR, on work and starting a buisness. When I read articles, stay in IL, its always “well, we were excited to mvoe and since I/spouse/both have a online buisness, we could…” sorta thing. or its “Well, we moved and glad we did, with our 1000 yrs :lol:worth of experience in ___”.
[quote=”sprite”]We are NOT in a recovery.
The US government has already gone into default. [/quote]
The U.S. Government is [b]NOT[/b] in default. It was close due to the recalcitrance of the House of Representatives of which the majority is beholden to Grover Norquist in their gross stupidity.
The U.S. has gone into default five times previously and somehow it is still alive despite its ailing condition. [url=http://mises.org/daily/5463][b]A Short History of US Credit Defaults[/b][/url][quote=”sprite”]There is no way that an economic collapse will NOT happen. [/quote]
The economic collapse has already happened. Where have you been since 2007?
The U.S. has neglected its infrastructure for a decade and it is failing.
The housing bubble burst,
financial institutions and the auto industry required bailing out,
Bush’s policies cost more than 6.6 million jobs, the unemployment rate went from 4.4% in May 2007 to 9.5% in June 2009 before Obama’s policies started taking effect. So on top of the 5,764,000 already unemployed it totaled to over 12 million unemployed. [url=http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?bls][b]Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey[/b][/url] On the [b]Database & Tools [/b]tab, check [b]unemployment rate (seasonally adjusted)[/b], go to the bottom and click on [b]Retrieve data [/b]link. This page is interactive and you can select data from 2012 back to 1948.[quote=”sprite”]Social Security has a limited life span once that collapse happens. [/quote]
Since 1952 congress has known two facts:
1 ~ that the baby boom had occurred and
2 ~ that our life spans were being extended through advances in medicine.
Yet every congress has continually kicked the can down the road with a band-aid, a hope and a prayer instead of resolving the issue which leads us to you next comment:[quote=”sprite”]It is a total waste of time voting for the criminal class of US politicians because there is no way to vote against the interests of Goldman Sachs. [/quote]
I would not call our congress a criminal class but a class of economic illiterates whose only goal is the pursuit of fame and power. As a by-product of that pursuit you have the lobbyists who line the coffers of these incumbents in return for favors to their employers.[quote=”sprite”]The game is essentially over but a lot of you do not know it yet. Many do and we are already crowding for the exit before TSHTF.[/quote]
The resolution to the issues that you cry about is grass roots involvement in the political process at the county level. That is where political careers begin. If you don’t attend the county political meetings to support intelligent, honest people to run for political office you have no right to complain about the condition of the nation.Every issue that the nation faces is correctable today with a concerted effort of the citizens. Do you think such cooperation is possible?
The answer, of course, is a resounding [b][size=200]NO[/size][/b] 😆 😥Waggoner,
Sometimes when something is broken, it cannot be repaired. It has to be scrapped and replaced. The US government is not some lame mare to be put out of its misery. It is a monster with a noose around our necks. It’s intent is pretty obvious. All your voting and grass root revival will only decide the color of the rope, not how it will be used.
Something on a comment on baby boomers
I used to process social security disability claims, now do mainly medicaid, often similar, some differences, same agency and often, claims cross.
We used to havea good realtionship with the FO’s for SSA (FO=field offices). By 2004, 2005, we were forbidden to contact the FO’s at all and only top agency people could contact them.
Now, it is almost impossible to contact them and when talking to a claimant, advise them to either go in person or do as much as possible online.
The FO’s have largely been over-run with disability and retirement paperwork and cannot effectively handle so much buisness. Plus, there was a huge group of SSA workers that also went into retirement, meaning shortages and long training, post-training of new people.
Another fact is that the Boomers often had far less children to counter their numbers, in part due to later marriages, contraception, abortion,etc….so the structure is top heavy and not surprisingly, based on debt and borrowing.
Some claimants I talk to have either been flat-out lied to about their options and laws,etc or mis-understood and mis-informed.
My advice, when having to deal with SSA-do as much online, keep all communications, go in person when possible and expect long waits, lines and very rude and arrogant people (either the culture and/or the burden of paperwork)
[quote=”camby”]
My advice, when having to deal with SSA-do as much online, keep all communications, go in person when possible and expect long waits, lines and very rude and arrogant people (either the culture and/or the burden of paperwork)[/quote]I believe you but, believe it or not, I had the opposite experience in Miami. The clerk with whom I spoke in person was extremely polite and informal. Maybe I was lucky, huh?
As far as waiting is concerned, I am pretty sure it is nothing like the long waiting for anything in Costa Rica.
[quote=”sprite”]
As far as waiting is concerned, I am pretty sure it is nothing like the long waiting for anything in Costa Rica.[/quote]Sprite, you are right!
(Damn, that’s now twice I have said that!)[quote=”sprite”]
As far as waiting is concerned, I am pretty sure it is nothing like the long waiting for anything in Costa Rica.[/quote]So what’s the litany of long waits you’ve personally experienced in Costa Rica, sprite?
Every time we’ve been issued cedulas, we were in and out in under half an hour. Last week when we went to renew our driver’s licenses, they had to change the numbers to our new cedula numbers. The entire process took forty minutes including the wait time and going across the street to pay. We routinely walk right into the local GP’s office without an appointment. And two passes through the teller windows at Banco HSBC in Grecia took less than five minutes.
Yes, our lives are ebbing away just standing in lines.
[quote=”sprite”][quote=”camby”]
My advice, when having to deal with SSA-do as much online, keep all communications, go in person when possible and expect long waits, lines and very rude and arrogant people (either the culture and/or the burden of paperwork)[/quote]I believe you but, believe it or not, I had the opposite experience in Miami. The clerk with whom I spoke in person was extremely polite and informal. Maybe I was lucky, huh?
As far as waiting is concerned, I am pretty sure it is nothing like the long waiting for anything in Costa Rica.[/quote]
seems to vary, and yes, have heard stories like yours as well as the opposite.
Talk about wait, had to get our cable adjusted and wont bore you with the long wait and multiple calls, transfers, more waits,etc….Perhaps, it is more in the mind and culture, American vs latin.AMericans are stressed and working self to death, Latins work hard, true, but dont seem as obsessed about things.
KNew a fellow that was a workaholic, pressured by the culture and taxes, regulatons,etc…was awlays angry about his hsipanic workers taking breaks (bear in mind, hot weather, labor intensive work). Noted to him, went over his head, that they work hard, but work to live, not live to work….any time i have had to wait in a line, i usually wind up knowing everybody by the time i get to the window. yesterday we waited an hour at ICE — it was like a social scene by the time we chatted up the people on either side of us. there is never a dull moment in any line in costa rica. good opp to get to know your neighbors and practice your spanish.
[quote=”sprite”]Waggoner,
Sometimes when something is broken, it cannot be repaired. It has to be scrapped and replaced. The US government is not some lame mare to be put out of its misery. It is a monster with a noose around our necks. It’s intent is pretty obvious. All your voting and grass root revival will only decide the color of the rope, not how it will be used.[/quote]
I believe that the US economy is very shaky as a result of (1) bank and financial system weakness due to ineffective bank regulation and repeal of Glass Steagall, (2) dumb wars without clear objectives and without taxation to pay for them,indeed with tax cuts by Bush, (3) passage of legislation to help favored industries, such as Medicare Part D which allows no way for the government to negotiate a fair price as the VA does, and is thus a windfall for Big Pharma (4) lack of citizenship, such as packaging known worthless loans to sell to others and such as not reading sufficient news to know what is going on and not participating in one’s government.
If our economy is broken, people who are too busy or lazy to read and too uninformed or arrogant to vote and participate helped that happen. It is because we failed to turn out of office those who would not raise revenues commensurate with their expenditures.
One of the strategies of those who have pretty much captured our Congress is to paint government at all levels to be a monster unworthy of support. They obstruct most measures and they cry that government isn’t getting anything done. Is government a monster when it pays social security benefits? Is it a monster when it builds interstates? Is it a monster when it provides schools for your children? Is it a monster when it provides courts for the legitimate resolution of disputes? Is it a monster when it provides medicaid for indigent children and their families or food stamps for the hungry?
These interests who want to weaken government, so they can strangle it in its crib and get their own way 100% of the time, want you to believe it is useless to resist their takeover. Certain of them are making a mint with websites and investment letters that preach panic. The more scared you are, the more newsletters or website ads they sell. You need to weigh information from these sources who want you to be afraid so they can get votes. Try to find a variety of sources and favor the more objective ones.
Although I recognize that traditional news sources underplay bad economic news, and that there was cheerleading in the press in the immediate lead up to the Great Depression, I also recognize that Japan has gone 20 years with worse economic fundamentals that the US. So I don’t think panic is warranted, but I do think careful attention, and planning for all eventualities, is important.
I appreciated Waggoner’s response about what he has accomplished toward a plan for survival.
If you can’t find a way to support yourself in Costa Rica, I suggest you turn your attention away from panic mongers and escape and look into making the US a better place for others and yourself. Hint: that will not be accomplished by refusal to pay the taxes needed to start climbing out of the fiscal hole. Note that all the things Waggoner has done in CR — farming, orchards, chickens — can be done in the US.
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