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Hi Rebargon
I live in the US. The restorative justice approach grew from its successes in Australia and New Zealand. It’s been very effective wherever the pricipals have been applied (see website). The whole thing is scripted by an outline of procedures,thus trained volunteers and/or professionals can do this. The process is PREscriptive but offers choices to the offenders and victims. Indeed, the criminal must be caught and face charges. He/she is then presented with options like jail versus a “conference” with his victims. The methodology is based on the offender being “SHAMED” by all those who were affected by the criminal act. This may also include the young offender’s family, teachers, coaches, ministers or other significant relations who express how they were negatively affected by the action. The primary victim(s) given opportunity to state what would “make things right”. It maybe the youth would have to repay the offendee in some way, or render community service. For many, this is restorative and affirming to all parties (win-win).
No panacea here, but one way to give young offenders a sense of cause and effect (AKA karma)and make positive use of being SHAMED before the victim, their family and the community.
I cannot read Spanish, so the websites you forwarded don’t quite work. But I will get in touch with a lawyer friend down there who can forward the linked info. CHEERS!
CALADANA, This is all extremely interesting, but one of the key factors is a problem, that offenders must know that there will be consequences, which is a bit of a problem in CR at the moment–Although I do have hopes that this will be altered sometime soon.
The whole “shame” thing may be considered insignificant by some, but that kind of appropriate use of shame is how very young children learn to empathize with others and we can all imagine how important empathy is to this process because if a person is empathizing with another person (putting him/herself in their shoes) they’re probably much less likely to do anything to hurt them. If this approach to induce shame in adolescents and adults manages to promote empathy as it does in children, it should be very successful..Thanks for sharing this information with us and people in CR that can help promote necessary changes there…
I just can’t let this drop . . .
Soflodoug, you were compensated for your robbery loss by the government of Costa Rica? They will make good any such loss? For anyone? Just which department of government makes this compensation?
And what, then, does the homeowner’s insurance on contents, issued by INS, cover? By the way, while INS is a governmentally designated national monopoly, it is also a private entity. It is not part of the government of Costa Rica.
And, yes, Soflodoug, we would like you to cite the actual numbers of people held up at gunnpoint in their homes, etc. You seem to have inside knowledge of the data. How about sharing it with the rest of us? Sources, too?
I bought insurance from ins like anybody else here can and I was smart enough to have homeowners contents coverage,I dont know nor do I care If they are government agency or what they are but they are the only insurance available in costa rica and they paid me for what was stolen less of course my deductable.
Regarding your question to me about what are the national figures for how many people were held up at gun point here and my sources,I guess im flattered you think I am such a wealth of knowledge here ad have some great sources,but whatever the reason I am just like anybody else here and my information comes from sources such as neighbors,business contacts and im just a conversational type of person but just to touch the tip of the iceberg my ins agent office was robbed for thousands at gun point for the yearly marchamos you know the yearly car tax they collect,a past neighbor of mine was robbed a gun point to his head in bed after declaring he has thousands of dollars on him to customs immigration here that night I may add,a gringo private investigator here was robbed in his home office and beaten to crap then the crooks came back the sameday,and the police let them go right in front of him,or ask fishel pharmacy what happened there recently in one of their stores, Want to know more of my sources? I dont know if you live in costa rica or not but why dont you go to the oij police with a truck and copy some of the public reports if you can. Call ins and speak to their investigation department,that was one of my sources with their info on a rash of robberies where adt alarm company was saying they were not receiving the signals after several robberies in the recent past. my sources are people of all types here and business agencies and mutliple oonversations also.
Do you live here Mr Murray? If not then please come on down!
I hope this helps you.If David Murray (one of the few people here happy to use his real name) does not live in that house in Grecia, Costa Rica that I know, he sure comes a long way to have lunch with me in Santa Ana…
Yes! David and his wife live in Costa Rica.
Once again I’ll add that the only bad experiences I have had as far as crime is concerned in 8 years in Costa Rica is my car radio was stolen outside a restaurant one day but that happened in London and the Cayman Islands too…
I have NEVER experienced a violent crime and know VERY FEW people that have.
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comoh I forgot contact the american embassy,they are a wealth of information and speak to a vice consul.
I have seen the change since 1982 and what I mean by that is not only the rise in prevalence, but also the style and how the general public tends to react to it…There are a million places where crime is worse and there are many places where it’s better. I left my car running in Denville, NJ a few days ago and went across the street to the post office entrance to drop off some mail and thought, “I wouldn’t dare do this in CR”…, but the fact is that CR has suffered a change and some of it is homegrown, but not all. There’s been a nasty little influx of foreign criminals armed to the gills to add to the mix because the prey is ample and the laws are very welcoming for this type of enterprise indeed in comparison to other neighboring countries.
Throughout these changes the response of the population (national & expats) has been to add more bars to their windows, create gated communities, use private alarm/security systems and NOT to try to stop the actual problem, but to gear up to individually instead of collectively working against this–although there certainly are communities facing this problem together and doing much better than others.
When I saw my wallet ‘walk’ thru a crowd as my pregnant sister was shoved and I was trying to keep her from falling in 1982, I also felt an enormous amount of solidarity when a few people ran after the thieves with me. I have walked thru some of the most difficult and uncertain areas of SJ and neighboring communities while working with women’s groups and was never once assaulted because that same sense of solidarity accompanied me, but right now the community feeling has been lost in many areas as everyone just seems to watch out for themselves. When I mentioned that a whole house was stolen in Turrialba in a place so remote that no one noticed, I felt awful for the owner, but when I heard that a whole house was stolen in front of neighbors in Escazu and NO ONE lifted a finger to put a stop to that, I felt sorry for that community (or lack thereof).
According to many in CR, Puerto Viejo is a haven for criminals and you’re lucky if your happy thoughts aren’t stolen, but I feel safe and have never even had a hair pin stolen there because when I’m there I’m part of that community, and that affords me their care and protection and of course I don’t become stupid about my safety either, but the point is that watching out for each other is much more effective than walking thru life isolating ourselves behind walls, the 3-4 keys you need just to get thru the front door which in the end only provides us with a false sense of security because “they” obviously can get around this when given half the chance. For goodness sake, “they” have been known to break in thru the roof!
I don’t think the answer lies in everyone taking a Rambo style of home protection or believing this will not affect the rest of us. I think that so much could be attained by those that have been victims of these crimes and those that have been lucky enough not to have been by getting together and working on this problem, but for that, we’re going to have to get to know and truly care about our neighbors something some people aren’t that interested in doing these days and times when individuality reigns supreme…You know, even in lovely CR where people are incredibly generous, you can’t expect solidarity from others if you are not also willing to give it….
Okay, soflodoug, so what we’ve established is that it was INS, not the government of Costa Rica, who covered the theft loss you incurred. So no public revenues were involved. It’s an important distinction.
What else we have established is that your “figures” are actually anecdotal reports and impressions. You have no data to substantiate your claims, right?
Oh, and my wife and I do, in fact, live full-time and permanently in Costa Rica.
Edited on Feb 09, 2008 05:51
People just love to throw around anecdotal crime stories as proof that violent crime is rampant in Costa Rica. Here is another one: I HAVE NEVER BEEN ROBBED AT GUN POINT OR ANY OTHER WAY IN COSTA RICA. Of course, this doesn’t prove one thing or another about general safety in the country. And that is my point. In the end, what really matters is how people feel about their safety whether it is justified or not. And that is a subjective question and that can be modified and mitigated all kinds of ways to suit your own needs. So, take moderate, prudent measures against being a victim and let yourself be happy and feel safe. The odds are far in your favor that you will never ever even be close to a violent crime unless you behave stupidly or are extremely unlucky.
Being as you’re all talking about a Latin American country, I would like to share a very Latin American saying: “cuando el rio suena, piedras trae” which means that when you hear a lot about this, that or the other thing, there must be some truth to it…You might try reading the CR paper, talking to some police & court officers and wondering why they seem to agree that there IS a problem and that there is a need to address it EFFECTIVELY and the LAWS need to be CHANGED because people in fact DO feel INSECURE and with damn good reason.
So since anecdotes aren’t considered objective forms of information to some (as if objectivity is ever fully possible to achieve) and only numbers/statistics are important then we must address the chance factor. I guess then anyone that has been affected by crime in CR is just plain unlucky (as Sprite says) which means that it only happened due to mere chance and there is NO evidence of statistically significant numbers of criminal acts being committed each and every day in CR….Somehow, I think that 600 criminals (that they can identify) just in the San Jose area would differ with that assumption and think their work takes some effort and they don’t just by chance come up with other people’s belongings…Yes, we have to be intelligent about our safety, but the situation in CR requires more than that and bad things (like becoming the victim of a crime) happens to good and vigilant people all the time there and anywhere else in the world if the probability of being a victim of crime is strong enough. If some people want to stick their heads in the sand and make believe that NOTHING is going on and this is just about a bunch of hysterical people coming up with anecdotal information, then I am eternally grateful that the people that matter with regard to this issue in CR seem to disagree with you and are working towards changing something that is IN FACT very broken and in dire need of changing…I for one was very happy to read this article that a friend shared with me http://www.nacion.com/ln_ee/2008/enero/30/pais1404106.html
and also to realize this week that there are programs in their criminal justice system already in place & some coming on line to attack the rise in crime in CR (internal and on the streets)…Por dicha!Well, to be fair, the CR government has lots of juicy little numbers to justify the cost that all of this will entail, not to mention that they must also estimate the HUGE amount of people that NEVER report the crime because they’ve figured it’s currently more trouble than it’s worth to take the time to do this, but may I remind you that every one of those little numbers are representative of a human being and their families who not only were personally or indirectly assaulted by having their home/office/car burglarized, but when they recount their stories are now being told by some that this was their fault anyway…Interesting little twist some of those that haven’t been “formally” introduced to the criminals in CR become their advocates and prefer to badger the understandably frustrated and upset victims…
As for me, I’m just glad some nationals have had the good sense to not only point out the problems, but to start working to make CR an even more wonderful place to live and visit for all of us…
Dear Redbaragon, What you wrote here could not be more perfectly done. I assume you have professional writng ability and if not you have a gift. This thread is now falling into the category of beating a dead horse. People trying to discredit the reality in costa rica of crime have other motives or reasons. In my opinion if someone lives here for about a year they can get a feeling for what is basically going on here. You can ignore it,or as you commented about sprites comment which I perceive as having a false sense of security is not the answer either as innocent people may be dramatically harmed. It appears that costarica is about 20 or so years behind many other more civilized countries and this is a fact that one has to consider when living here. There are some enjoyable things here but to each his own. I do hope that sooner than later the situation improves. But some people not caring about other peoples experiences shows the kind of person they are as there is no other motive to speak on this open forum than to voice information within the guidelines and hopefully infom and assist other people from ones experiences or knowledge.
Thank you for the compliment soflodoug, but I just truly love CR and have done so since the first day I stepped foot in that country many years ago and when I see something harming it, I speak out. That’s not to say that the other posters here don’t also love CR, they just have different views, but you’re right, no need to beat a dead horse. Thankfully, Scott (the founder of WLCR), allows us ramble on with our views, but no need to test his hospitality and his good nature. In the end, this forum supercedes its goal to provide ample and diverse information to its members.
About your post, I can tell you that CR was better off 20 years ago regarding the crime situation and it’s still much better off than some places right now, even in the good old US of A, for many reasons that I won’t belabor here…So it’s not so much that CR is behind the times to other countries, it’s that they weren’t prepared for this future and now they’re working to amend this. I would also like you to consider that other countries that are indeed considered ‘more civilized’ by some practice quite ancient and barbaric forms of behaviors even to this day. In the end, aren’t we all just human beings trying to live well and be happy in our own very subjective ways no matter what level of economic development our countries of origin or circumstance happen to have?
Take care and I hope you only encounter law abiding Ticos/as from now on, they are the majority and they’re well worth making the effort to get to know…
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