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No offense Sprite, but just how often do you visit C. R.,
and, how much time do you spend in C.R. each year?Nez
Nez,
No offense taken at all. I visit CR 4 times a year and spend a few weeks each time. It is always in the same area and I have yet to visit San Jose or spend any time with expats so I come to this message board to read what is on their minds. It feels like I am visiting a different country than the one being described here. Perhaps there are countries within countries? Gated communities come to mind.Obviously, I am not knowledgeable about Costa Rica beyond what my limited experience gives me. I am fluent in Spanish and talk with Ticos including friends, the neighbors in the little farming community and others in the two larger towns nearby. I have never set foot in a “gated community” and in the last two years have only had one conversation with an expat who was visiting CR from Panama. In as much as one can rely on casual conversations with the locals and on one’s own sense of the local situation, I am still just as comfortable in CR as I am in Miami regarding crime. There are places here in Miami where I would NOT get out of my car at any time of the day and San Jose is a place I am not eager to see either.
I suspect what is happening here is that we are each looking at the situation with different points of references and very different expectations. If you have been living in CR for the last ten years, then the crime increase, which is happening everywhere, will seem horrific to you relative to what you were used to. But I am telling you that this is the case in many other places on the planet as well.
If you have moved to San Jose from a small, mid west town, then I can also understand your fears. But again, I think you might also have had such concerns had you moved to New York City or Miami Los Angeles.I am not doubting for one second that there has been a change in the crime climate in CR for the worse. How much worse and what is the proper attitude to take is what I am questioning. Perspective is essential.
Edited on May 11, 2008 01:46
Sprite,
I am encouraged that you may be getting it. It is not because crime is a little worse than it was 10 years ago. Crime is getting bad in Costa Rica. Just read the Jane’s report about the opinions of Costa Ricans about their own Country. Maybe in the area you visit there is not a problem and I am sure there are areas all over the Country that are not, but theft and other crimes are becoming an occupation in CR and is growing rapidly.
This problem will threaten the viability of the real estate industry, tourism and the like. I believe many Costa Ricans understand this and are concerned. We all know it is a very small percentage of the population that are criminals, but going unchecked it is just a matter of time that this problem will have severe consequences.
According to articles on THIS site, crime has not had much of an effect on Costa Rican real estate. And according to recent tourism statistics, crime seems to not be much of an issue since visits were up dramatically. Costa Rica is still as popular as ever for these things despite an increase in crime. It begs the question; how much of a real increase in crime is there if tourism and real estate business are both up?
Edited on May 11, 2008 12:30
There is an increase in development activity along the central pacific like never seen before. Many of these projects are in their infancy and the prices are approaching those prices as seen in the US. If I were an investor / homebuyer in the Jaco area I would tremendously worried about my investment dollars, euros, colones ets…
CR is as popular as ever as a destination, but with the rapid increase in air fares and with the increase in property prices along with steadily rising crime, I believe the Jaco area will be the first you will see have a deflation in property values. It is just my opinion, but I think it is valid and not unreasonable to assume this will happen. Too many gringos in an area with way to much crime.
You may be right about future decreasing values along the coastal areas. But I am no authority on real estate investment so I would just be guessing. Jaco is a place I avoid anyway because I have also heard stories about crime there. Another good reason to avoid American enclaves is that concentrated relative wealth may be the reason for the crime. This may explain my attitude towards crime in Costa Rica….I just don’t see it where I spend my time. Hearing about it is not the same as experiencing it. Out of sight, out of mind.
Where and how do you spend your time in CR that you are so astonished and frightened by the increase in crime? And where are you coming from that the current Costa Rican experience has soured you?
I have been traveling to Costa Rica since 1982, fishing and surfing. I mainly visit the central and south Pacific areas from Hermosa down to the Panamanian border. Petty theft has always been a problem in these areas. In the last few years I have met son many Ticos and gringos that have been robbed. Not just petty theft but all of their possessions stolen. The Ticos I know have said that the Country is changing for the worse and they fear for the future. They are not able to leave their houses for any period of time without having someone the know stay in their place. A bad situation.
I am not personally frightened, but have wanted to purchase property around the San Isidro area but have come to realize that it is not an option for the reasons mentioned above.
It makes me sad because it is truly a wonderful place.
I think Costa Rica IS STILL a “truly wonderful place” even with the sad increase in crime. This is why I emphasize putting this matter into proper perspective. There is always a price to pay. Where else would you consider buying that is superior to Costa Rica? Do you have any other options that you have fully investigated?
Sprite,
Superior to Costa Rica is a personal question that includes many factors. I have looked at properties in the Patagonia region of both Chile and Argentina. These areas have significantly lower crime than the developed areas of Costa Rica and are quite beautiful. Also the wine regions of Argentina (Mendoza) are very desirable, and under consideration.
This is quite a bit of topic, but since you wanted to know… The crime in these areas are not a large problem like in Costa Rica and the land prices are still reasonable.
Back to the topic at hand, it seems you are coming to realize crime is a real issue in Costa Rica. Do you think it should be ignored?
Of course increasing crime is an issue in CR. How MUCH of an issue is what I am interested in resolving. I get the sense that this is a case of too many Chicken Littles clucking about the end of the peaceful life in Costa Rica. I am no expert on CR, but I think I have enough common sense and experience in life in general to make a determination that Costa Rica is still a wonderful place. I don’t believe there is any place which is perfect.
And of course, crime will be lower in rural areas of other countries than in urban areas of CR. But that is also the case for rural Costa Rica. Poverty in itself is not a guarantee of an increase in crime. Where ever wealth begins to be concentrated in a poor, urban area, there will be more crime than in rural areas where some wealth is more dispersed. The San Ramon, Palmares, Naranjo area in Costa Rica is, to my experience and sensibilities so far, quite acceptable as far as the perceived crime rate.
Good hunting to you in your search for greener pastures.sjm and Soflodoug,
I understand that you two fellows are scared. It’s a scary world, and Costa Rica isn’t heaven on Earth. The first time I visited San Jose in 1971 I caught a kid trying to break into my Ford Bronco. There was crime even then. It doesn’t surprise me that there still is crime in the Pura Vida. It also doesn’t surprise me that the crime rate is increasing although I’ve not had anything stolen during any of my subsequent visits. Crime is increasing in Chicago, where I live. The last figure that I saw was just under thirty school kids have been murdered in my city. That was more than a month ago so I’m sure that the number must be better than thirty now. These are SCHOOL KIDS — high school and grammar school. Every day in the Metro (neighborhood) section of the Chicago Tribune there are at least one or two articles about adults being stabbed to death, shot to death, or beaten to death. Muggings, burglaries, and car thefts are so numerous that the Tribune doesn’t even print them anymore. You have to look in smaller neighborhood newspapers to find the long lists of those offenses.
It might surprise you to know that I love my hometown. I don’t walk the streets in fear or keep myself barricaded in my apartment. I know where and when I can travel safely. The safe areas are expansive and the safe times are extensive. The advantages of living here far outweigh the drawbacks. My intention is to move down to Perez Zeledon during Chicago’s winter months and return for the summer lakefront music festivals, neighborhood block parties, and all the other delightful warm weather activities. In short, I’m not running from Chicago to escape the crime; I just want to escape the cold. Winters are so bad (this past one was the worst in about twenty years) That I am willing to brave the depredations of that hellhole you call Costa Rica.
sjm, you seem to be especially fearful of Perez Zeledon. I hope you’re wrong about how bad it is, because I am planning to build on a lot that I bought next to the El General Mall. I haven’t spoken to the Chief of Police as you claim to have done, however I found the following web site about six months ago: http://www.perezzeledon.net/ . Please visit it. San Isidro doesn’t have a newspaper as far as I know, but this website seems to cover the news and the happenings in the Southern Zone fairly well. More than 99% of the items are about non-criminal happenings. They’re about church festivals, council meetings, school events, sporting events, and a myriad other social activities. I’m especially interested in the cabogatos, the long trail rides that attract hundreds of horsemen and women (and kids) from around the area. The Generalenos aren’t living in fear.
Perez Zeledon is not perfect. There is crime. Last week a homeless drug addict was stabbed to death outside of a bar. I read about it first on the La Nacion web site and then I saw it on the Perez Zeledon site, so the PZ site doesn’t filter out bad news. There is also a piece that talks about the 450 cases of domestic violence that have occurred in San Isidro so far this year. The piece decries the high number and compares it to the much smaller numbers that exist in surrounding towns. Neither of these news items is going to scare me away from Costa Rica.
sjm you keep insisting that we must do something. I intend to be cautious and always exercise situational awareness when I am away from my San Isidro home, as I do in Chicago. When I am home, I intend to be on good terms with my neighbors and watch for any suspicious activity in my neighborhood. If I see a crime being committed or if I see any potential criminal activity, I’ll cooperate with the police. I’m not sure what other actions you think we should take. If you think that all of us gringos should sign petitions, bring one around; I’ll sign it for you. If you think that we should form vigilance committees and ride around in masked groups, count me out.
Every once in a while you guys or others of your ilk start a thread in the forum screaming that the sky is falling. Now you claim that women can’t walk the streets any more and people have to imprison themselves in their homes to avoid having all their worldly possessions stolen. If you truly believe this malarkey, I have some advice for you: stay out of Costa Rica. It’s as simple as that. Try Panama or Patagonia or any of the other places that you claim are safer than Costa Rica. I won’t miss you and I doubt if many of the other forum members will either. Frankly I’m amazed that Scott allows you to keep screaming fire in this movie house.
editer
Well we have another non believer here. Obviously editor,”you wont be editing my mateial” you by your statments you have a resentment towards people who are CONCERNED for safety. I must admit you are a much braver man than I am, because if you bought a lot next to a mall in san isidro,well, lets just say, your braver than I am.
If you have not lived in san isidro and resent what people are saying about it, the reality of what it is like there may be something you regret or maybe enjoy,but this is an open forum with rules and mabe you will have nothing to say in time as I know very nice people who never had a problem, however without repeating myself I know many many who did. I wish you the best of luck and when i was in san isidro one time, I emphasize one time, I noticed that many of the people there look similar and on a sunday preachers wale in the morning breeze everywhere. But could you find out why many people look similar? Is there a prominent family there or what? anyway sorry you think im a chicken and sjm too. But sjm we know who we are.
Good luck in san isidro editor.Soflodoug,
We will certainly see the “editer” I guess he meant editor on a website soon after his home is stripped of its belongings posting his troubles. I think he should build his home in San Isidro next to the EL General Mall, it will be a wonderful experiment for him (or her) or his or her “ilk”. “Editer” you have put so many words in my mouth I don’t know where to start, so I won’t.
Have fun in San Isidro, I’m sure with your reasonable attitude the Locals will give the respect you deserve and you will be just fine. Keep your eyes and ears open while you are there. Good Luck to you, thanks for your wonderful insights.
Soflodoug you certainly get it….
Soflo what is your fascination with incest? SJM I wish you the best in Chile or Argentina both beautiful places! I think you both have lost perspective in your egoic battle to be “right”. Peace.
Dear Mr Lotus,
For the record here I did not use the word “incest” as you chose to use in your posting nor did I insinuate anything to do with incest. It seems that you have some inside information about this in costa rica and if you could enlighten me to this incredibly interesting topic I am all ears.
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