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Sprite (or anyone else, I guess) – I have recently been hearing bits and pieces about the benefits of becoming “sovereign”. I figured if anyone would know anything about that, it would be you!
[quote=”sprite”]Knowing the above, why would anyone pay income tax? Because if you don’t, the IRS will use force against you to seize your property and possibly your person. Can anyone tell me why this does NOT make you a slave?
Whatever the extent of corruption in Costa Rica, it does not seem to be as offensively open and in our faces as it is in the US. Income disparity in the US is at an historically high level and when these unfair tax comparisons are added to the mix, I have to wonder why we have not seen a violent American revolution yet.[/quote]
Didn’t they just hire 21,000 new IRS agents? They are actually tracking your spending habits (credit cards), so it can be used in some way, shape, or form. Not sure why me buying a 12 pack of beer, chips, and an onion at the grocery store is any concern of theirs, but I guess it has become their business. That’s why I use cash as much as possible, hard to track those habits. Craigslist is great for buying certain items you don’t wish to have a paper trail.
On a separate note, any good suggestions for a nice hilltop ocean view hotel in the Jaco, Herraduro, Hermosa area? The wife wants to spend some time looking at water.
Thanks David. Googled “sovereign citizen” and check some of the pages. The FBI page loads slowly. Do they keep tabs on who loads the page or is that just paranoia?
All in all, the movement does not look like something to get involved with. We have ‘left-wing’ and ‘right-wing’ groups, but this is just looks like a ‘goofy-wing’ group.
Taking my chances, I clicked on a couple of the pages that are listed. On one, it makes mention of the fact that adherents to this myth issue their own license plates. In fact, when one of them was stopped by two police officers for not having legitimate plates on his car, he murdered them both. Great company they keep.
I thought it ironic that these guys don’t want to pay their taxes but they’re plenty happy to drive on the roads their law abiding neighbors pave for them.
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]Taking my chances, I clicked on a couple of the pages that are listed. On one, it makes mention of the fact that adherents to this myth issue their own license plates. In fact, when one of them was stopped by two police officers for not having legitimate plates on his car, he murdered them both. Great company they keep.
I thought it ironic that these guys don’t want to pay their taxes but they’re plenty happy to drive on the roads their law abiding neighbors pave for them.
[/quote]Sovereign citizenry is a movement which appeals to the idealistic libertarian mindset. It does not seem a practical approach to life style since governments everywhere are violently opposed to any individual actions which attempt to escape the human farm.
As regards the tax issue, anyone who uses a social infrastructure should be prepared to pay a fair share of that cost, which most of us do just by purchasing fuel, food and other essentials. You may have no idea just how much you are paying in taxes just by breathing and living within a society.(Income taxes are confiscated from us strictly for gifting to the bankers and not for paying for infrastructure, David))
On the same note, I am irritated by all of these idiots who claim that they are self made, successful business people who owe nothing to the society in which they live and upon which they thrive in a parasitic manner. If they were truly self sufficient, they would be living completely separated from society, well entrenched in the wilderness somewhere as a hermit where libertarian ideals would not even be an issue in the absence of other people.
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]
I thought it ironic that these guys don’t want to pay their taxes but they’re plenty happy to drive on the roads their law abiding neighbors pave for them.
[/quote]Just thinking out loud, would that statement be true for the same for people who don’t pay taxes (the famous 47%) at all, or who actually get a refund on taxes they did not pay?
I don’t have an issue paying taxes, the government needs the money for defense, infrastructure and the like. My personal issue is paying a higher percentage rate than my law abiding neighbor, who pays a lesser percentage because he does not make as much. Percentages should be the same across the board, whether you make $10,000 or $1,000,000.
“Pay your fair share” is the talking points lately, I have trouble understanding the logistics behind that, if the ones being talked about pay a higher percentage and the others pay a lower percentage, and the ones paying a higher percentage are being told they are not paying their fair share, I don’t understand that logic. What is a “fair share” amount? 50%, 75%, or 100%??
And I ask not being confrontational, I ask to gain knowledge and another point of view because I don’t understand this issue as it stands.
I will repeat this because it appears that nobody sees it or believes it; Income tax does NOT got towards infrastructure. It goes directly to the banksters. It is a theft by the banks of our wealth. It is part of the harvesting and hollowing out of our society. If you are happy to pay that tax to the criminals who confiscate it, then you are a dupe because it has nothing to do with the costs of maintaining the society in which you live.
[quote=”sprite”]I will repeat this because it appears that nobody sees it or believes it; Income tax does NOT got towards infrastructure. It goes directly to the banksters. It is a theft by the banks of our wealth. It is part of the harvesting and hollowing out of our society. If you are happy to pay that tax to the criminals who confiscate it, then you are a dupe because it has nothing to do with the costs of maintaining the society in which you live.
[/quote]
So you are saying that my property taxes that I pay, do NOT go the the multitude of items complete with milliage rates for, road, fire, schools, ect? If that is the case, then they have pulled off the biggest and longest fraud in the history of the world. How does the government pay for anything if all of the tax dollars go to the banking system?
Sprite, I think you and I have the same jandra of thinking, but I am confused about your last statement.
[quote=”sprite”]I will repeat this because it appears that nobody sees it or believes it; Income tax does NOT got towards infrastructure. It goes directly to the banksters. It is a theft by the banks of our wealth. It is part of the harvesting and hollowing out of our society. If you are happy to pay that tax to the criminals who confiscate it, then you are a dupe because it has nothing to do with the costs of maintaining the society in which you live.
[/quote]
There’s an old saying that if you say something forty times, it’s true. The saying is wrong, sprite, and so are you. You can repeat that claptrap daily, hourly, or as frequently and as often as you like, cluttering up this or any other discussion to your heart’s content, but it will never make what you say true. Nor will anyone take you seriously.
Get off it and get a life.
(The reason no one believes it is that it’s nonsense. Just ask anyone who has ever driven on an Interstate highway or flown to or from any metropolitan airport.)
Kwhite1, it’s only true that the famous 47% don’t pay [u]federal income taxes[/u]. They still pay federal wage taxes (from which the rich are largely exempt), state and local sales taxes (the ultimate in regressive taxes), gas taxes (also regressive), real estate taxes (regressive), excise taxes on things like phone service, etc.
All those taxes fall most heavily on low income individuals and families because, once they are paid, much less is left to sustain the lives of poor taxpayers than is left for the rich.
But please remember that a portion of that famous 47% are completely supported by multiple social services (welfare, food stamps, etc) or are earn less than a certain income and get the unearned income ‘refund’. They use the tax maintained roads and highways, are defended by police, fire, and military, in short, use public services for which they pay little or nothing.
The Fair Tax Act is the most reasoned and reasonable solution to the tax issues. It contains provisions to continue to support the poor but it finally imposes a tax on the ‘underground economy’ of the US – people working off the books and people who make a living illegally. It also eliminates the IRS and its gobbledegook regulations.
Uh, “The Fair Tax [u]Act[/u]”, Victoria? This a bill that’s been passed by Congress and signed by the President? Or did Congress override the President’s veto? When does it take effect? Have I missed something?
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]Kwhite1, it’s only true that the famous 47% don’t pay [u]federal income taxes[/u]. They still pay federal wage taxes (from which the rich are largely exempt), state and local sales taxes (the ultimate in regressive taxes), gas taxes (also regressive), real estate taxes (regressive), excise taxes on things like phone service, etc.
All those taxes fall most heavily on low income individuals and families because, once they are paid, much less is left to sustain the lives of poor taxpayers than is left for the rich.[/quote]
A question David…why would the low income families pay more federal, local sales, gas tax, and excise? Don’t they pay the same as everyone else when making purchases?
I understand that it takes a bigger toll on lower income families in terms on money at the end of the month, but if you agree that the “wealthy” should pay a higher percentage than the “blue collar” guy, isn’t that promoting class dirential, or in other terms class warfare? Why should a more successful person be treated differently than a less success person? As understaand it, every man is created equal?
Don’t get the idea that I am a multi millionaire (at one time I was, the real estate bubble cost me several million), but if one class of people are held to a different standard than others, how is that “fair”?
The fixed cost of driving ten miles to work, as a percentage of total income, is far greater for someone earning the minimum wage than for a high income earner. That cost is further exaggerated by the fixed cost of the gasoline tax which they both must pay. The same can be said for every other flat (read: “regressive”) tax.
If you think that the population generally is better off when minimum wage earnners are supporting their families on $4.00 per hour (take home) while a rather small strata are struggling along on $400.00 per hour, then you’re an apologist for regressive taxes. If, on the other hand, you believe that the society is healthier when income is distributed a little more evenly (just a little), then a progressive tax structure is more to your liking.
Me? I’d be happier if the President and Congress made the tax structure much more progressive and if that cost folks in my circumstances a little more of their discretionary income. True, I might have to go downstairs to write this on my iMac, rather than upstairs on my iPad, but if the United States’ many poor and undernourished children ate a little better, or if more of its 50 million citizens without health insurance got covered, it would be worth it.
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