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If it is your right to arm yourself, then it is your right indeed. But if you think we live in a free society you are mistaken. Think government regulation and the multiple paths that can take you on and you’ll think twice about a free society…
You’re right I am mistaken. A free society would allow me to carry a gun.
Edited on Apr 20, 2007 19:13
Edited on Apr 20, 2007 19:14
Edited on Apr 20, 2007 19:15
Sven, the alternatives are either anarchy or communism. Both of which are abismal failures. I personally would shoot someone and ask questions later. If I killed someone that was only breaking into my house to steal my microwave that would be tragic, but I would feel totally justified and 100% of the responsibility would lie on the thief. You do not have the luxury of sitting down with the person breaking into your house to analyze his motives. If it’s my son that is trying to steal someones property I would be very saddened by his death, but it would be his responsibility and I would not hold the person shooting him responsible. Pacifism is also proven by history to be an ibismal failure. So what is the alternative? I would rather see law abiding citizens defending themselves and unfortunately killing a thief than the other way around. Owning a gun does not breed violence or inheritantly cause criminals to arm themselves. For the most part, violent criminals will arm themselves first, and not because of any other reason.
If i am home with my family.. and someone breaks into my house.. im sorry but i will kill you..plain and simple.. i am working on a big sign that reads in spanish
if you break into this house you will be shot and killed on site
this may offend some people. I hate violence and wish everyone can all get along… but I live in real world and there are people here in this country as well as others that prey on the good.. for whatever reason it is…
I will not be a victim.
You gotta love Robin Williams……
Even if he’s nuts! Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.Robin Williams’ plan…
(Hard to argue with this logic!)“I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here’s one plan.”
1) “The US will apologize to the world for our “interference” in their affairs, past and present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those “good ole boys”, we will never “interfere” again.
2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany , South Korea , the Middle East , and the Philippines They don’t want us there, anyway. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.
3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We’ll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They’re illegal!!! France will welcome them.
4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don’t like it there, change it yourself and don’t hide here.
Asylum would never be available to anyone.
We don’t need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.5) No foreign “students” over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don’t attend classes, they get a “D” and it’s back home baby.
6) The US will make a strong effort
to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilde rness.
The caribou will have to cope for a while .7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don’t like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not “interfere.” They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army.
The people who need
it most get very little, if anything.9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don’t need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us “Ugly Americans” any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH…learn it or LEAVE…
Now, isn’t that a winner of a plan?No one is free…from birth, death, disease and old age to having to eat, shelter yourself, obey all sorts of laws everyday; Your idea of some sort of “freedom” is an illusion. And all this macho talk of shooting people most of you would probably pee your bermuda shorts if you walked down Throop street in bedstuy and some thug put a knife in yourside, never mind you’re going to pull out your gun like Rambo and shoot the bastard…it doesn’t have to be overkill or pacifism but a balanced and just society. The U.S. has been built on a legacy of violence and terror and thats not an empty critisism but a historical fact. Dk2tu I understand you get frustrated by all the critics of the U.S., but lets have an honest review of U.S. policy over the last 200 years…it ain’t all milk and honey, hotdogs and waiving flags for the sake of democracy. We are fighting a war in a country that posed NO threat to us, a backwards almost bankrupt dust bowl that we supported for 6 years when they fought Iran. Pictures of our former President sitting and smileing with Sadam, Rumsfeld was in there to. Now we haved gained almost nothing, over 3000 young U.S. service people killed, thousands of others psycologicaly damaged and maimed. And over 600,000 Iraqis killed!!! These are people with familys just like you, wanting every basic “right” to the pursuit of happyness you want. You may not agree with all of Zinns “The Peoples History Of The United States”, you may brush him off as a commie? But it sort of gives you a pretty fact filled and backed up brief on what our beloved government in partnership with the elites have been up to for the last 200+ years….it ain’t pretty. Yes the average joe gets his tv and fastfood nice car goes in debt for 30 years to pay off his home etc.. just enough to keep him numb untill dies of a heart attack or maybe the meds will keep you ticking for a few more years? Also don’t delude yourself that the U.S. doesn’t care about these bananna republics…they care enough to sponsor wars in Nicauragua, Panama, Columbia, Haiti etc..because some big U.S company is making a lot of money growing those bananas, palm oil trees or rubber plants. We do immedietly stop careing when it no longer serves our purpose then we’ll through to the curb without a care. All this said I don’t hate the U.S. and really spend very little time argueing about, lifes to short. But theres patriotism, nationalism etc…and then there are just plane facts that history has recorded. And really I don’t want to hear about how bad commies are or some other oppressive dictatorship etc…it doesn’t change the facts about the United States because as good as we are is as bad as we are….now don’t you all blow a gasket over this I can assure you i’m not red! Lol..
I know this is a long rant but that’s what happens whn I eat late at night!Edited on Apr 20, 2007 21:12
perhaps you don’t want to hear about oppresive dictatorships because it then supports at least in part the policies of the country. That is getting off the subject of the OP, so leave it at that. Another discussion for another forum. the topic was crime, violence, and gun control. You want to talk about history, gun control has not curbed gun related violence. You can have all the Polyanna beliefs you want, but it doesn’t change the facts. Guns in law abiding, responsible citizens is a deterrant to crime at least against that individual. Of course you will always have the person who blames the gun owner for their neighbor getting robbed because if he didn’t have a gun the theif would have robbed him instaed of the neighbor.
Lotus if you want to have an honest discussion about the other topic, e-mail me….would love to.
I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Probably 3/4 of Texas is armed, they have more executations than any other state and crime stats there are no different than California. I do think the underlying reasons for crime/violence in America are more of a factor than who is armed and where though. So just put a big sign up that says you have a gun, tell all your neighbors you are armed to the teeth? This will keep them away and you wont have shoot anyone who mistakenly knocks on your door some night or your friend comes slinking over at 3am and is drunk and stumbles onto your property by accidente. Boom! Oh it was a tragic mistake Mrs.Lupe I thought little Jose was out to steal my I-Pod so I pumped 10 rounds into him…sorry he should’nt have been on “my property”!
Also regarding oppressive dictatorships we have certainly supported our fair share, including the biggest one on the planet at the moment…Maoist China. Do some reading on our big trading partner and see if there domestic policies are in line with Democratic priciples….not!
Also I want to add that yes I know the U.S. has also done much good in the world. Our domestic agenda is’nt half bad and certainly all that money that U.S. corporations make benefits the rabble, keeps us knee deep in burger king etc..our trade policies keep the cost of domestic products down(usually at someonelses expence). But to have this “honest” discussion first you will have to also aknowledge the darkside of American policy..can you? You may misunderstand where I am coming from, I don’t judge it but I do aknowledge it but I also will not justify it…I can not ignore documented facts both good and bad. I just don’t feel patriotic, it sounds corny but I belong to the universe and feel no need to identify as an American we are all made up of the same elements and all return to dust. I do support peace and justice for everyone, everywhere and sometimes violence/war may be un-escapable so then lets us fight.
Edited on Apr 21, 2007 05:35
Edited on Apr 21, 2007 06:00
Now lotus, usually when someone says “I guess we can agree to disagree” on an issue, that is it. You want it both ways though. You say basically….ok, we agree to disagree on this, let’s stop here, but then you go on another rant using hypotheticals. Executions in TX have nothing to do with a particular level of crime in TX versus another state. There are more excecutions in TX because they are more willing to carry out what the justice system has delivered. Whether or not you disagree with the death penalty is another debate, it doesnt apply here. Crime stats may be similiar between TX and Ca, I don’t know because I’ve never seen those stats. If you are going to make an argument using statistics then you really should offer the proof of those statistics. Just as there are no stats to back up the previous statement that when responsible people arm themselves for protection that it causes criminals who were never armed to suddenly arm themselves. Criminals will typically take the path of least resistence. Those arming themselves are doing so because that is their method and level of violence. There is nothing to back up the statement they are arming themselves because law abiding citizens are arming themselves.
Can we talk a little bit about what is happening in Costa Rica? In my area of the south/central pacific there has recently been a string of home invasion style robberies where people have been beaten, drugged, and even raped. All gringos for obvious reasons. We do not have a police force here; the nearest police are an hour away and typically take 2-3 hours to respond; the thugs know this.
As a community we have come together and formed a tico/gringo neighborhood watch type group. This group has met with the mayor and city council of Quepos, and also the police chief. They have been very supportive of providing us with a promised police presence once they receive about 25 new officers. It hasn’t happened yet, but they are sending patrols down here now. The city council has given us permission to control the roads if we want to do that. Not close them, but monitor who is coming in and out.
Personally, we have a tico couple that will be living at the bottom of our property so there will always be someone here. We have put up fences and gates. We got a large dog. We will be putting some perimeter alarms around the property. But the bottom line is we are responsible for our own security. We are doing everything we know how to do to make sure the gun stays put away. But if someone comes through all of the above we have to assume they mean us harm. What ever happened to the good old days when people waited til you left and then came in and took your stuff? Now there are crazies out there who get a kick out of hurting you in the process. I hate guns, but I’m feeling that at this point it is a necessary evil; as stated before in this thread I’m not willing to become a victim.
Keith, you forgot to mention how we either assassinate or unseat democratically elected governments in some of those countries and then put our puppet government in power. Remember Indonesia? Ecuador? Panama? Haiti? This will make me ever more unpopular than I already am, but I agree with you 100%.
We have problems in the States not because we have arms, we don’t use them is the problem. The police cannot use the arms for what they were designed for. You do not point a gun at someone then not use it, the criminals laugh at the police because they know the police can’t shoot unless shot at. It’s not being armed that is the problem, it is not using the arms. If you think a criminal will steal if they know that they will be shot on sight then you’ve buried your head in the sand (that is not directed at you but at people in general). If you know that if you put your head through a hole in the fence that someone will hit it with a baseball bat are you going to do it? I think not. The media pushes garbage at us because that is what people want. We won WWII because we went at it with everything we had, not because we made threats. If you are 65 years old and a muscled person breaks into your house intending to do harm can you stop them with a flower? No, you can’t, but if you are known to be armed and will use your firearm do you think that intruder will rush in to get shot? I think not. We live in a world where criminals are turned lose because of prison over crowding, what does that show the criminals? Not much, make the punishment 10X worse than the crime and crime will slow down. If you think we made this a violent world you’ve never seen a dog loose in a chicken pin, they kill just to kill leaving dead chickens all over. Did the dogs owner teach that behavior to his dog, no, why, because he also owned the chickens. Action is what it takes to stop problems, not worrying about the criminals rights, as far as I am concerned they give up the rights when they do crime.
I own firearms and I target practice, I would shoot an intruder if necessary but I haven’t had to because they don’t come around my home. My neighbors are armed as well, criminals don’t come around because they know the citizens are armed and will use their arms, amazing though, no one has been shot yet!Brilliant Lotus! I just about pee’d my pants laughing about Mrs. Lupe and the Ipod. You obviously have your head firmly on your shoulders.
What this all boils down to is the most basic law of attraction. If you think about violence and worry about violence, then violence will be attracted to you. Most of you are referring to victimization…well, if you live like you will be victimized, then that is exactly what will happen to you. Even attending anti-war demonstrations or signing gun control legislation does not help…these things only breed more war and more guns, because that is where the focus is put. If we want to live in a peaceful society (and in a county like CR where there isn’t even an army)then we must turn our attention away from violence and towards more peaceful intentions….ultimately, what you think about most will be the things that are drawn to you.
Thank goodness all these gunslingers aren’t moving into my neighborhood. That would worry more than being robbed! LOL
The people of Darfur must have been thinking about violence daily. Six million dead jews must of thought a lot about violence as well. The 32 at Virginia Tech, they probably majored in violence. I’m going think more about this theory you have, I think your on to something.
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