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Well Diego very interesting article that made me think a bit about your ideas about government and how we live our lives. I am a little torn in my feelings on it, first my gut is to really embrace what you speak of, and I agree with you 100% about the Tico’s. But then a little voice in my head tells me America is good, “superior” in some way…that our system works and gives much opportunity. We play by the rules because we understand this is an means to an end, a super power with the best of everything at our finger tips, science, medicine etc…It made me really search my core am I just a scared follower that likes to talk a big game but has to hide under the dress of America? Funny you mention Thoreau, I am currently reading “Waldon” I practice mindfulness and embrace a Buddhist tradition based on no fear… being in the NOW, the moment. I have felt that I have escaped American middle class enslavement to some extent, I have always been self employed kept life simple but criticized by many for not being a good follower, doing the 9-5, getting the 30 year mortgage and hoping I make it to 67.5 to “retire”? But am I really as free as I think… as a Tico is,do I want to really embrace this simplistic lie fully or do I like having a foot in both worlds? Diego you seem to make a pretty good living, so do I but can we do this if the whole world was like Costa Rica, don’t we need followers, consumptionists money chasers, enslaved dreamers to keep the money flowing? Are we being a bit hypocritical to want CR to remain as it is but at the same time need/want a certain lifestyle that consumer driven capitalism provides? Perhaps things are fine just as they are and it’s who we are that is important, that we can function under any circumstances and can not expect the world to conform to our personal ideas of freedom or ideas of good/bad etc…But where ever we are we are really free because of our beliefs? Can we expect Costa Rica to remain static; frozen in a 1950’s episode of “Father knows best”? Or must we be willing to allow change to happen and leave it up to the individual to remain free, uncorrupted of heart,mind and spirit…separate from the rule of law untouched by it? Are you being a bit to sentimental about the past or for that matter the present, as I read a bit of that sentiment in this forum from expats longing for the “old days”? Diego you certainly really stand out from the pack! I have read most of your post’s and you have quite a range of ideas from old fashioned machismo to a modern day philosopher…certainly filled with what would appear as many contradictions. But that is what I like about you, just when you think you have this guy “figured” out he throws a monster curve ball at you. I can relate although in different ways, I’m a bit the same….convention doesn’t stand in the way of my thinking. Lately I must say I have been really embracing the ideas of Eckhart Tolle you may want to read “The Power Of Now” or ” A New Earth” maybe not…I no longer believe that simply opposing government/life is enough, the key is to change ourselves our consciousness, awareness level. If enough of us can resonate with these ideas then the worlds consciousness can effectively be changed and then we can make lasting changes from a strong position of awareness of what is..
Diego, your article reminds me of what Will Rogers said a long time ago,
“Thank goodness we’re not getting all of the government we’re paying for.
Jerry Minchey
As I read it Diego’s article advocates that people should not participate with rules and regulations and to follow a policy of non cooperation with the Costa Rican government, including the non-payment of taxes.
I am surprised that Scott has allowed this considering his stated respect for laws of Costa Rica. I personally find it unacceptable for a foreigner (I assume) to preach this doctrine and I believe it is actually forbidden under the condition of most types of foreigner migration status.
Just because you can “get away with it in Costa Rica” doesn’t make it right.
I agree with you which is why my newsletter this morning clearly states: “I will not encourage people to ignore, bend or break any laws” but that doesn’t mean that in this culture that it doesn’t happen because it does regularly.
In another Discussion thread somewhere, a VIP Member suggested that you ask the Ticos you know when they have to pay their income taxes? He asked because most of them do not know, why do they not know? Because they don’t pay any …
It’s not “right” I agree, and much of what Diego speaks of is not legal either but, it is very true.
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comLotus you have taken time to bring up some valid points, so I will address them one by one
L) Well Diego very interesting article that made me think a bit about your ideas about government and how we live our lives. I am a little torn in my feelings on it, first my gut is to really embrace what you speak of, and I agree with you 100% about the Tico’s.
But then a little voice in my head tells me America is good, “superior” in some way…that our system works and gives much opportunity. We play by the rules because we understand this is an means to an end, a super power with the best of everything at our finger tips, science, medicine etc…It made me really search my core am I just a scared follower that likes to talk a big game but has to hide under the dress of America?
D) Scared follower? FEAR is an acronym for Forgetting Everything’s All Right
Freedom is the issue.
All things I have ever studied have been that which I wish to, and all things I have wished to study have one common taste, just as the oceans of the world have one taste, that of salt, my studies have one taste – that of freedom.
L) Funny you mention Thoreau, I am currently reading “Waldon” I practice mindfulness and embrace a Buddhist tradition based on no fear… being in the NOW, the moment.
D) Ask your self the classic Tolle question – Is there anything wrong right now in this very moment?
L) I have felt that I have escaped American middle class enslavement to some extent, I have always been self employed kept life simple but criticized by many for not being a good follower, doing the 9-5, getting the 30 year mortgage and hoping I make it to 67.5 to “retire”? But am I really as free as I think… as a Tico is,do
D) “Freedom is another word for nothing left to lose.”
Philosophically, if you accept the death of your ego you have nothing left to lose. Most people define themselves by their money. They cannot even fathom a death to that which defines them. That is why I say, take most wealthy peoples money away and they are completely lost. But take a campasino’s or wanders or spiritualist’s money away and he still has his “self,” that of which he has only ever had – his character which are the sum of his actions.
L) I want to really embrace this simplistic lie fully or do I like having a foot in both worlds?
D) A foot in both worlds is good because as you are part of both you can affect both. It signifies balance and a middle path. I live in 1,000 square foot home and drive mid nineties vehicles. Now the homes happen to be on some gorgeous real estate with incredible views and meditation gardens but it is the land I am brought to, not the house or cars, but the things made by God and not the things made by man (perhaps that is why I have chosen another round of parenthood at a later stage of life). Perhaps that is one of the things that draw me here. I feel very comfortable having a foot in both worlds. It’s like the Taoist adept ascending the mountain to self-develop and then descending the mountain to arrive in the city to teach his realizations.
When I talk to a Tico he says “I will be there tomorrow if God wants it.” There is a connection to the land that unfortunately due to the spread of western consumerism is disappearing and yes Lotus, I am being sentimental as I am one who chooses to feel on a deep level. I hope to see a rural Costa Rica for as long as possible. It is this connection with the land that seems to attract me to the people here as they seem to have a better feeling that life is fleeting, temporary and short and that in reality we own nothing. God owns it all; we humans are merely squatting for awhile
L) Diego you seem to make a pretty good living, so do I but can we do this if the whole world was like Costa Rica, don’t we need followers, consumptionists money chasers, enslaved dreamers to keep the money flowing?
D) If I had one thing I could change about the world it would be the system of money.
Printed paper currency has been the downfall of man. Lotus they say “it takes all kinds.” It really doesn’t, they just happen to be here. You choose who you are, and don’t worry about who others choose to be. There are three kinds of business in life – yours, mine and Gods. That’s their business. Global warming is Gods business and who I choose to be by how I choose to act, think and feel is my business.
L) Are we being a bit hypocritical to want CR to remain as it is but at the same time need/want a certain lifestyle that consumer driven capitalism provides?
D) Need? What do you really need? You mean “want.” Those wants are part of the indoctrination. You want because your neighbor has. I get sucked into it when I go back. The difference is I have played the superficial game including a stable of cars and bikes, and the superficial relationships that go along with people liking you for what you have versus who you are.
L) Perhaps things are fine just as they are and it’s who we are that is important, that we can function under any circumstances and can not expect the world to conform to our personal ideas of freedom or ideas of good/bad etc…
D) Things are as they are supposed to be. Expecting the world to conform would be dealing in God’s business.
Of course we are just fine. Things should not be any other way than how they are. If they should be different they would be. To say things should be different from “what is” right now is to argue with reality. But our choice about what we choose to think and how we choose to feel and act influence the “future now.”
L) But where ever we are we are really free because of our beliefs?
D) Correct.
L) Can we expect Costa Rica to remain static; frozen in a 1950’s episode of “Father knows best”? Or must we be willing to allow change to happen and leave it up to the individual to remain free, uncorrupted of heart, mind and spirit…separate from the rule of law untouched by it?
D) If we choose to adapt to Tico life rather than pour in here building mansion and destroying the land with wall to wall condos, then CR can remain a place of free and uncorrupted hearts. It’s the false belief that “material things produce sustained good feeling.” They are temporary highs like and similar to drugs after you ABUSE them they create a vacuum that needs to be filled, in this case with more purchases.
L) Are you being a bit to sentimental about the past or for that matter the present, as I read a bit of that sentiment in this forum from expats longing for the “old days”?
D) I choose to feel deeply.
L) Diego you certainly really stand out from the pack! I have read most of your post’s and you have quite a range of ideas from old fashioned machismo to a modern day philosopher…certainly filled with what would appear as many contradictions.
But that is what I like about you, just when you think you have this guy “figured” out he throws a monster curve ball at you. I can relate although in different ways, I’m a bit the same….convention doesn’t stand in the way of my thinking.
D) Lotus, it’s a real pain being an enigma (as my physiologist used to call me), but you also know you are alive. When you use your “crazy logic” to live, you choose to go to the body and its heart for answers; hence the phrase “crazy logic” as the heart does not rationalize like the mind so the intellect sees the heart knowing as “crazy.”
L) Lately I must say I have been really embracing the ideas of Eckhart Tolle you may want to read “The Power Of Now” or ” A New Earth” maybe not…I no longer believe that simply opposing government/life is enough, the key is to change ourselves our consciousness, awareness level. If enough of us can resonate with these ideas then the world’s consciousness can effectively be changed and then we can make lasting changes from a strong position of awareness of what is.
D) I agree with this whole heartedly and because you have taken the time to expound these important question and ideas I have obliged you equally. Choose what you think and it will define how you feel. Feeling is the heart’s souls and your feeling determine your actions. The sum of your actions is your character. How we think and what we say can be interesting, it is our actions that define us.
Not at all Phillip, I advocate following justice and individual resistance to civil government in moral opposition to an unjust state. If taxes are used wisely I will gladly pay more than my share. If they are stolen from the people then I do not want to pay them.
Phillip is it just easier for you to play along without having to make the tough moral decisions about what is right and what is wrong? If I choose not to decipline my child it is because I do not care about her. If I choose to discipline her it is because I love her. The same is true about the state and you are the father of the state as you finance it. So do you care enough about the state to discipline it? That is why I say I am a patriot and those that enable the squander because they do not care enough to discipline the squanders are less than patriotic and hevily indoctrinated.
Diego, may I speak to you via private email?
Thanks
Chet
Chetohrt@bellsouth.netEdited on Jul 24, 2007 11:27
POSTED in wrong place and reposted here by Scott …
message Posted By
Posted Jul 24,2007 8:58 AM valsfarmIt’s their country, we should go along with their flow. I just wish all the people who come to the U. S. would have the same outlook.
NATIVE vs GUEST:
There is a big difference between being a native of a country and being a quest of a country. As a native you have different rights AND can get away with different things. The native also blends in and can disappear among the multitudes. As a guest (Residency is a guest status in CR) you may be asked to leave at any time if you break the laws. As a guest (a gringo, or other foreigner) you stand out like a sore thumb and it is much more difficult to just blend in and not be found. As a relatively RICH guest you are expected to pay your way among a relatively poor populace.
NOT TAKING PART, OPTING OUT:
When you don’t take part in your government you also do not vote and thus do not logically have the right to complain about your government. Those that do not take part in government or society usually live outside of both. To drop out you generally to not have a job or trackable income. Otherwise you must pay taxes and are supporting the government. You may not have a driver’s license (a privilege not a right) or a passport. Both limiting how and where you travel and thus limiting your freedom, not increasing it. In most cases those that do not take part are very poor and have little to gain or lose by taking part. There are the exceptional few that are rich and chose not to take part. They are on permanent vacation and can afford it. However, just the act of spending money pays taxes (30% of gasoline, 50% of phone, GST. . .)
PHILOSOPHICALLY:
It sounds nice to just drop out of the world. But there is a big difference between rebelling and “dropping out”. In our modern world it is easy to become a non-person. Just let your driver’s license expire, lose your SS-card and passport. Then live with friends or relatives for a time so you do not have a permanent address or bills in your name. Then you will find it difficult to get a job and if your situation changes you can easily become one of the many homeless . . . the ultimate dropouts. Try to get OUT of that situation in our modern world. . . No ID, no address, no bills? That means no driver’s license, no job, no apartment or shelter. It is a vicious cycle and very difficult to get out of. You can easily become a non-person, a drop out.
In many primitive places of the world a large segment of the population do not take part in their governments. They also live “off the gird”, have no mail service or other government services and work in a cashless barter economy. They have no say in their governments nor do their governments care if they exist, survive or not. In most cases these are the poorest of people. They may live simple lives but they may also live short lives with no medical care and no support system other than family. Yes, they are completely free and do not need to worry about politics (until the highway comes through, the government builds a dam that floods their home or a war breaks out). They also do not have the freedom to travel to other countries (legally). How many of us growing up in more developed countries want this kind of “freedom” and are willing to drop out that far?
The many Ticos that claim to not pay taxes probably work for someone part time that pays taxes out of their incomes. The others that are subsistence farmers may pay less or none. But their lives reflect that situation. If they own a truck, car or tractor they have paid SOME taxes.
THE REALITY:
Yes, there is a big difference in the reality of dropping out and the philosophically dropping out. The U.S. is not a perfect country, none is. But it is a wonderful country. It has wonderful highways and fairly good public services. You purchase almost anything, anywhere, anytime. Most of the US is much safer than the world on average. I just cannot afford to retire in the U.S. after a life of being self employed and trying not to take part any more than I had to. . . (yes, I know something about being a “drop out”). So I look at Costa Rica. There, on a little Social Security and a small income I will be a “Rich Gringo” (not really but in comparison to the average Tico, maybe). I will also be able to afford health care that I cannot afford here. So why should I begrudge my new country of choice a few taxes? It will be my duty and honor as a guest.
NOTE: “Retirement” to me will mean working until the day I die (or am mentally unable to work), but living within reduced means. This is something Costa Rica offers in my case that the US does not. AND it will be an adventure. . .
Just don’t get him started on sex please simondg! We’re short on moderators this week…
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comDiego,
I enjoyed your piece, you cover a lot of ground…Many of us in the states, share your distrust of big goverrnment, many of us speak out, some on the fringe might have even thrown a stone and hid their hand. As a rule, we’re not spineless, usefull idiots…
Historically we have had options: A> Flight (the expat/emigrant way..) or B> Fight – (the activist/militant choice)…Not a fan of extremes and believing “we can have it all”… Many of us tranplants choose C> expat/activist…
Is that so bad? No… Should we give up our Boy Scout, Huck Finn ways? No… Will we ? No… Will we continue our pet charitable projects? I hope so…. Will the more altruistic among us feel a bit guilty for not paying our fair share in taxes and in doing so find other ways to contribute to our host country… Yes…
Is this wanting to re-create US Suburbia ? No… Is this paramount to “nation building” ? hell no… This is the Boy Scout in us.. That is who we are, wherever we are. Call us naive or adolecent….
I’ve been an emigrant most of my life, I can never return to my birth place (Havana)… I will never be a local anywhere I live. I can pretend to be a local very successfuly, but someone aways rightfully plays the “native card”. I can never be a native… That is my fate, I embrace it… It makes me strong, alert and hungry for more…. I love America, but I can never be an American. I love Costa Rica but I can never be Tico.
Fellow, expats/ emigrants this is your fate as well. Unless your willing to accept this, “Go home, this is not your fight”… your flight has landed… Else…Stay! Burn the ships…
Love your community, your host neighbors, protect them if need be, enjoy their foods their language, make them yours. . And never forget, you we’re once a Boy Scout…Cheers,
Rick Delgado…Rick,
Niece piece, lots of souls. I love Ciba and my daughter is a citizen. I however disagree about the perceived importance you give to the native thing. Being born somewhere is like being born to someone. It defines you if you choose to define yourself by it. I choose to define myself by my Italian heritage for the longest time, then I went to Italy and realized I had very little in common with the Italians. Quite honestly I didn’t like them. My father has a mausoleum (?) where all our forefathers are entombed. I saw that his space was the last one and that every one of my forefathers had the same name. I asked him why I didn’t have one and he said proudly “you are an American, you are not an Italian.” So I have chosen to be buried where my heart lies and this can change, but right now my last will and testimony specifies Costa Rica in a nice little hillside cemetery with a beautiful view (Haaaaa). So I know what the Cuban deal is like as I have spent considerable time on the Island. It’s a proud bunch but don’t let your pride misguide you. You can choose to be a local. It called participation and what you participate in – you are. The nationalism thing is cool to a certain extent but if you abuse it it affects your humanity. We all belong to the same world.
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