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Just so we’re clear on this, I was informed by a regular policemen and that they don’t enforce traffic laws and the traffic cops don’t enforce anything other than traffic laws. They’re 2 distinct groups in CR which do not get involved in each other’s functions. So Sprite, if you’re looking for the traffic cops to keep you safe from anything else other than another motorist’s actions, then you’re ‘contributing’ your charity unwisely…
I agree that all the police branches should be paid more and also probably be better educated (all around), but any of us can certainly find more charitable ways to help those that are actually trying to do their jobs rather than support those looking to make an easy & illegal buck off of a tourist leaving CR’s name and ethics in the gutter.
Not all traffic cops are crooked in CR and it’s a pity that the acceptance of this type of behavior will induce the wrong kind of people to wear this uniform…
According to the posts, it seems that the road to Jaco has notoriously been plagued by this so I will make a denuncia and talk with an OIJ official from Heredia that I know, maybe he can get someone to look into this (being as those traffic cops are breaking the laws). I know that not all Ticos traffic cops are crooks and I’m glad to hear from these posts that most of you don’t think/act as if this is acceptable behavior…Rationalizing things will not make them right…It is probably a good idea to leave our cultural bias about corruption back in the countries from which we came. My take on this is that as a North American, Costa Rican political issues such as corruption should be left to the Costa Ricans. I think it is quite alright for any tourist to resist when he has broken no law and is confronted with a corrupt officer trying to take money…if that tourist is so inclined. But remember that whether you pay the officer directly or go to court and pay a higher sum, the money may still end up getting soaked up by a corrupt apparatus. Every Tico has a large extended family. Who knows, maybe his uncle is the judge?
If am ever pulled over for no other reason than the officer is looking for a score, I may or may not confront him depending upon my own agenda at the time. If I am in a hurry, (never a good idea in CR) I may pay him. If not, I may just have a friendly discussion with the guy.Now this is rich, coming from you Sprite and here I thought you actually liked Ticos! There is nothing ‘culturally’ acceptable about taking bribes in CR or it wouldn’t be against their laws. Does having ‘patas’ (knowing the right people) help you get things done there, yes, and it’s just about the same everywhere else in the world or else why would networking be so important in business? Please DO NOT malign a whole legal system or people just because there are some crooked cops and scared tourists that don’t know how Ticos are or rationalizing people like yourself that figure it’s just best to play this bribe game than to step up and legally pay the piper if you have committed a traffic infraction.
Costa Rica does NOT suffer from the type of police corruption that has plagued Mexico, Dominican Republic and other places at times. And I can say that I certainly did not experience any of it while I was in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico as everyone was quite a pleasure to deal with. I’ve never been to Dominican Republic, but I have certainly heard horror stories about much more ‘forceful’ traffic police demanding bribes and it doesn’t make me very enthusiastic about visiting the DR. Who knows, maybe it truly isn’t so there either, but that reputation tends to keep tourists inside of their compounds and me from visiting since I prefer to travel outside of those facilities. I don’t know what you think your ‘charitable contributions’ will afford CR, but I assure you that it won’t be what supports a good reputation.
I don’t know if I would refuse to pay a ‘police requested bribe’ everywhere else in the world as I easily do in CR. I guess if I feared for my life or some further retribution, I would pay because my life is worth that and much more, but I have known Ticos for long enough (almost 3 decades now) to know that this is NOT the case in CR. Again, you can choose to rationalize anything you wish, but there are values regarding fairness that even children can recognize at a very early age and that have NOTHING to do with cultural Tico values. That argument about those bribes being culturally driven was just ridiculous and offensive, especially coming from a non-Latino or maybe you just think that all Latinos, including Ticos, are crooks or our definition of fairness is somehow different than that of those held by Euro/US born people?
One thing is for sure, I’m immensely glad to see that most of the post writers have refused to pay and found the same type of response from the police, a non-violent one which is how most Ticos choose to express themselves. That said, if you ever feel that you’re in danger because you just happen to meet the exceptional traffic cop that appears deranged, please follow your instincts, comply and then make sure you tell the authorities to help keep CR thoroughfares safe for all…Pura Vida!
I tend to bump up against the system here in the States. It is my anglo saxon heritage and genetic disposition to do so. I don;t think anyone would disagree that there are important differences between northern cultures and southern cultures and one of these differences is the propensity of Latin cultures to put family before god and country. This was an observation by James Mitchener, the writer. He went on to say that the result was a more relaxed attitude toward certain finer points of legalities. The tolerance of petty corruption comes from this. The northern cultures have their own set of negatives which I am aware of so I am not being a bigot here in this observation.
If you are honest with yourself, you know I am correct on this.I am not intentionally insulting any one here. I am married to a Latina and I have a son with her. There is far more to admire in the Costa Rican culture than there is of which to dispair. Come down off your high horse, walk with the rest of us mere mortals who may not have the energy to combat world evils. Relax, live with minor infractions…you’ll live longer…:-}
Edited on Feb 01, 2008 06:59
You’re full of nonesense trying to rationalize your own behavior by blaming it on a cultural bias. Yes, values are influenced by culture and Latinos put family before government many times, but I don’t know any Latinos or Ticos that would be okay with the bribe situation we have been discussing. Deal with your own cognitive dissonance without putting the blame in another culture or their ideas.
Who knows how many years they will live, do you? No matter how many years I do live, I prefer to enjoy and live those years I’m blessed with on this earth not being condescending to other cultures just to explain away my own shortcomings or peculiar views on justice/fairness/legality…
Considering the polarization of wealth throughout the world and how many people barely make enough to fulfill their family’s basic needs, I guess any thief (be they uniformed or not) can take up your arguments too…Yet I can’t think of one person on this forum or in CR (Tico or not) that would welcome and support being robbed/burglarized/mugged you pick the situation!
Not to mention the obvious, that we do things based on our OWN biases (cultural and otherwise) not another person’s or culture…
Edited on Feb 01, 2008 07:40
You said: “Not to mention the obvious, that we do things based on our OWN biases (cultural and otherwise) not another person’s or culture…”
When you move to live in another culture, you may behave according to the culture in which you grew up OR you may choose to try to conform with the culture to which you have moved. I believe it is easier for me to conform to the new culture as much as I can. Sometimes I won’t be able to, other times I will be able to.
Also, I am not rationalizing MY behavior by blaming another culture rather I am rationalizing a proper reaction to the behavior of ANOTHER within his culture towards me. If the friendly policeman asks me for a bribe after I have committed a traffic offense, and I am reading that this happens quite often, I may respond by paying him. My motive for doing so is that this is a common response within the culture.
Corruption is ultimately destructive for any society. I have seen the right wing reactionary Cuban community of Miami make a real mess of our city over the years with the same corruption they used in their home country before the revolution booted them out. They managed to establish the same corrupt behavior within our country because they were the dominant culture in Miami.But we are talking about a matter of degree here. If you march around with a black and white definition of right and wrong behavior, you are getting into the area of an unforgiving fanaticism. That is no way to get along anywhere.
Edited on Feb 01, 2008 08:45
I think the point of this is that the bribe appears to be geared towards the gringo/tourist – hence, they write “$20” on their notepad when trying to solicit the bribe & make a big deal about how much trouble the ticket might be, when in actuality my understanding is that there are no points assigned to your license if you are stopped/ticketed & there is no court appearance for a simple traffic violation. You simply go to the bank & pay the fine. I think tourists can actually pay it at the car rental agency when they turn their car in. But if this is your first time in Costa Rica, you speak no Spanish, & a policeman offers to let you go on your way if you just pay him $20…well, I think there are a lot of tourists willing to do this because they don’t know better & it certainly seems a lot less painful than what the alternative might be. These policemen know this & are taking advantage of unsuspecting/unknowing people – & I’m sorry, if I want to donate “charity” then it will not be to line the pockets of a corrupt official. Maybe I do have preconceived cultural ideas, but I refuse to believe that in order to assimilate here, I should just go with the flow & accept that corruption is not only okay but should be rewarded by giving in to it. That doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t think that refusing to pay a bribe, or asserting that it is corrupt/illegal for these policeman to solicit bribes, is even close to “unforgiving fanaticism.” It is a problem recognized at the highest level of government in Costa Rica & steps are being made towards rectifying the situation. Will it ever happen? Who knows. Until then, I may not get things accomplished as quickly as some – I may even some day get a speeding ticket – but I will not line the pockets of anyone to try to get ahead. Period. If that is due to my own cultural bias, so be it.
The point is that CR is not rampant with police officers taking bribes, not yet that is and so you are taking something that is being done by a group of very specific people and painting everyone in that culture with their bias which allows them to feel entitled to do this and feel that it’s okay to make some ‘bonus pay’ by politely asking the tourists to comply with their request for a bribe…You are over generalizing and that doesn’t typically bring in understanding about a culture…This is NOT cultural, this is a personal issue that plagues people in power allover the world.
Sure, there are things that are black and white (example: I don’t EVER want my daughter or anyone else to be tortured.), but you’re right that most things fall into shades of gray so that a bribe requested politely might not seem like such a bad thing. Well, it’s not like they’re going to kill you if you don’t give it so in the scheme of things, they certainly are polite extortionists, but extortionists they still are (according to dictionary: Someone who illegally uses of one’s official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage..).
The laws in a country tend to be a reflection of the cultural mores of those people. If you don’t believe me try showing some explicit affection like kissing in public in some countries (even some States in the US have some pretty funky kissing related laws about mustaches and all…) and see where that lands you. I’m sure that it doesn’t mean that they don’t ever kiss, but that those laws are representative that they don’t approve of displays of public affection and so we should abide by their rules in order to enjoy our stay. In CR it is ILLEGAL for a police officer/traffic official to request a bribe in lieu of him/her doing their job so this is definitely NOT something that this culture finds acceptable. It also doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen, but that’s why there are laws to try to dissuade people from practicing this selfish and not very good use of their taxpayers’ money. CR is paying those officers to do a job not to have a ‘side business’ and may I remind you that this was similar to what many of Batista’s policemen were accused of doing in Cuba. In some case, those ‘crooked Cuban police officers’ were even less (in shades of gray) menacing since they just took the parking meter money and kept it for themselves which certainly didn’t entail quietly intimidating a tourist by virtue of them wearing a uniform and being armed…So yes, there are shades of gray, but we all know which side of the scale they fall on and it by no means requires fanatism, intolerance on my part or any high horses involved. You will continue to do as you do and I will do the same, we’re both expressing the reasons as to why we choose the way we do and we can all be civil unless you start blaming theirs, mine or your shortcomings on being from a particular culture. A lot of different things go into every decision we make, some are individually based (or biased) and others are more collectively so…
Just imagine, if a grade school teacher needs to step outside for a minute, she asks one of her students to stand in front of the class and monitor his classmates and she asks the remaining students to continue individually working on their assignment. Who thinks it’s appropriate that he should see a classmate not abiding by the rules and offer to charge him a fee to BUY (extort) his silence? Do I think he should just tell his teacher (black & white scenario)? No, I would hope that he would actually just talk to his classmate and tell him that he needs to work individually or he will otherwise have to report him. Most of us do well with a warning, sometimes we loose sight of the big picture and a warning is all it takes to make us behave appropriately. By the way, just because those traffic officers engage in this type of behavior doesn’t automatically make them monsters, but they are acting inappropriately & illegally and I would hope that most people wouldn’t give in and that this behavior will be that of a few and not become the norm in CR because that would be a real shame…
Charity was likely the wrong word to use….On one trip to the BCR in Jaco, we had left our light on in the rental car…of course our bank time took much longer than we expected….when we came out of the bank, our car was dead….we flagged down some passing by Policia, and asked them if they could help….My Spanish is muy malo, but I unstood him to say, ge would be right back…within 10 minutes, they showed up with some jumper cables, and gave us a jump…I gave him a $20 bill as “charity”…and we shook hands and left…I would do the same thing in the states, or anywhere else in the world…but to give money to a traffic cop, for a ticket…. ? Like a previous poster said “it would depend on the circumstance, but unlikely”
when your right you fight when your wrong,shut up and get along.pay the man.bribes are part of the salary.paid them befor and I’ll pay them again.
When you have that attitude, you just promote the wrong…and bribes are not part of anybodys “salary”….
sure are a lot of north americans who seem to want to impose their own set of values on Costa Rica. I would be more worried about corruption higher up than that of a traffic cop.
Leave the politics and the laws to the Costa Ricans. When in Rome…….You insist on maligning a whole country and this may well be a sad case of projection on your part. The point, you insolent, arrogant, condescending, pseudo-communist gringo, is that THE MAJORITY OF COSTA RICANS ARE NOT CORRUPT AND DO NOT PROMOTE CORRUPTION IN THEIR COUNTRY!!! So YOU may well be a Roman looking for ‘Rome’ in CR, but it is NOT the Costa Rican way of life and you should stop confusing the two. My family has lived there for over 3 decades, I have plenty of friends there and none of us have had to resort to paying any bribes to anyone in order to live, work, buy homes or vehicles, get an education or travel from Corcovado National Park to Caño Negro and anywhere in between in spite of them carrying Tico papers and me carrying a US Passport! How many Ticos/as do you know that you feel you’re now an authority on how INEVITABLY CORRUPT ALL Costa Ricans are since it’s cultural according to you? Even doing so while you think that their corruption is ‘not so bad’ in the scheme of things…How long have you known that country and it’s people to NOW make you believe that you are the ultimate word on what is ultimately customary in Costa Rica to have the lack of insight to say that crooked cops are just part of living there? There is obviously a problem with some corrupt traffic officers, but this is NOT the GENERAL sense of things in CR.
BTW, corruption stinks no matter where it festers, let a little rot go unchecked and see how that will grow and damage whatever it comes in contact with…Corruption is something that affects ALL cultures and thankfully, not all people within those cultures accept it so that we don’t all choose to promote it because in the end it will always come back to bite us one way or another…
Go ahead, keep making this about how others are trying to impose their values on CR while ignoring the huge elephant in the room which is that you keep trying to rationalize your own ideas and promotion of corruption (as long as it’s ‘small’ enough) in a country by blaming it on a whole country’s values rather than just taking responsibility for your own actions and accepting that those crooked CR individuals are NOT 100% representative of ALL Costa Ricans!
The term “Gringo” can be given or taken one of three ways; good, indifferent or bad. The way you just used it was a bigoted, demeaning, bad way. I maligned no Tico or Cuban exiles with any of the many nasty, bigoted terminology out there because I am not a bigot nor was I maligning the Ticos for anything at all. There is corruption in Costa Rica, there always has been. That is no malignment on the average citizen.
You apparently have a chip on your shoulder as many Cuban exiles do towards progressives and their politics. after 25 years in Miami, I have learned the best thing to do is ignore it and move on.Sprite, that is just the response I was hoping you would have because you do not seem to get it, unless it’s applied to you. Maligning a WHOLE culture just because there are a few jerks is uncalled for…Of course there is corruption in CR, just like there is corruption in the US (and as many have stated on this forum, and for those that insist on grading, unfortunately the US suffers all sorts of small, medium and gigantuan sized corruption), but that will NEVER mean that every US citizen nor that its entire culture embraces corruption as YOU have insisted about Costa Ricans…I’m glad you were offended, you should have been and so should any Tico/Latino reading your post. If you don’t believe me, next time you enter CR Immigration, take a print out of your words and let them know that you think CR is a land of officials who are looking for bribes from tourists because that’s just part of their culture and that you’re willing to comply since you feel that “when in Rome, you choose to do as the Romans do…” Let us know how they feel about your perception of their cultural views on corruption….No one likes to have generalized accusations thrown at them so act as you wish, but don’t then rationalize your behavior by throwing those kinds of stones at CR and therefore saying that this is JUST how things are in CR!
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