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lceide
Caution: You are now entering a criminal elimination area I love that.. unfortunetly you are right.. people need to know that if i break into your home the chances are something bad will happen to me.. i remember when that man from nicaragua broke into that mechanic shop late one night and his rotties tore him apart.. unfortunetly the man died.. but if he survived.. he probalbly would think twice of repeating his actions……. action.. reaction..
Full disclosure here: I have been saying that I feel confident that once I have settled in CR and grown used to my area, that I would feel as safe as I do in Miami. However, I neglected to mention that I intend to build an 8 foot high wall around my house topped with concertina wire. Additionally, I will keep several dogs on the property, probably pincers and whenever I need to leave for more than a day, I will have the caretaker/gardner spend the time in house. This will cost me some money but it is less than what it costs me to pay my fair share for police protection in Miami. (Some of those high Miami property taxes are earmarked for police)
As I said, it all boils down to economics. Wealth, or lack thereof, is the cause for crime and it is also the cure. Come to CR for low property taxes and make your dollars go farther? You get what you pay for. You get an inferior infrastructure, little or no police and fire rescue and a country full of people who have far less than you do. And I am talking about plain, normal people. Costa Ricans are not worse in this aspect than people anywhere else, I suspect. In fact, they may be a bit superior overall. The point is, security costs you money…whether it is security provided for by the state or security provided for by your own efforts.
Good for you Harlon, I like your community plan much better than the alternative! ;- ) I would like you all to know that I have no monetary gain to make by commenting 1) not currently living in CR, 2) don’t sell anything there (although I legally have sold : – )), but I certainly have a lot to gain by them. My sister and her family is there and so are a good portion of my dearest friends. I left CR in 2001 after living there for 8 yrs due to a family crisis and I can’t wait to go back! Yes, the crime rate has risen since 1982 when I spent 364 days there and it wasn’t longer because my parents needed me home. Although some things don’t change, In 1982 my wallet was stolen and I ran after them with a guy that was waiting for the bus with me. In 2000 they jumped over the wall to my gardens & stole an expensive bicycle and I ran after them with my dog (well, just a little different…). Unfortunately, somethings have changed, what’s more upsetting is the quality of those crimes since then are much more violent (CR to CR comparison). And it’s true that the crime rate is twice as much in Jersey City, NJ. Good thing I don’t live there! Anyway, I live in Boonton Twp, NJ and you can look it up–there was 1 homicide in the last 5 or so years (it was within a family & not product of a home invasion)! The rest of the crime rate is minuscule and we all joke that the police stop us if we’re going 1 mile over the speed limit because they have nothing else to do. However, I go into NYC (with a much, much higher crime rate) every week for education and entertainment. I would give anything to be able to live in Costa Rica and I plan on going back as soon as I can! There are a lot of factors that go into why we feel at “home” somewhere and why we move somewhere, security is surely on the top ten hit parade, but it’s not the only reason. There are many reasons why you’re all there, right? What do I have to gain? I still visit once or twice a year, my family and friends live there, you guys are there (I’ve grown fond of you ;–)) and I will be returning within the next few yrs so I think it’s imperative that we become part of what solves this problem! It’s not about scaring people here or anywhere–heck I would have really hated to have been the one and only person murdered in my town….No matter what the stats are, high or low, who wants to be one of them? Although I’ve never met any of you or Scott in person, I really think that he and certainly those of you that live there or want to live there–love that country for many more reasons than just because you might have a business there. I make my living in the US and I don’t love living here…although I do love the people and many ideals produced by people who have lived in the “Great Monster of the North”–including everything Jose Marti wrote while he lived here (Can you tell I’m a product of Cuban exile?;-) Anyway, I think the admin is trying to do more than spin, he’s contextualizing the situation so that when speaking of HIGH crime rate, that’s defined. I cannot speak for anyone else, but he seems to be pretty fair presenting his information and allowing you access to the same. He handles some difficult issues with pretty balanced assessments although he’s clearly opinionated–aren’t we all? Now this doesn’t mean that I have agreed with him on everything…Just my humble thoughts….I don’t know what I could offer from here that would help the situation there, but I’m here to be supportive of any effort that comes from this forum to help Costa Rica change this rising trend so that we can all love AND enjoy Costa Rica. Pura Vida Amigos/as!
Sprite, forgive me for asking, but are you going to Costa Rica, or are you going to prison? Beacause based on that description, I am not too sure…
Gee you could really get an anxiety attack reading this thread!! I have been going down there for about 6 years and feel pretty safe. I guess living in NYC you are used to looking out for yourself. Harlon you make it sound like every time you walk out your door someone is ready to pounce! David you have been down there for awhile, what’s your take on all this?
Sooner rather than later Costa Rica will have to address this issue. Tourism is one of their major sources of income. They are not going to kill the goose that laid the golden egg. New York City did it under the Giuliani administration in order to protect tourism, and it worked. I would not mind paying an additional entrance tax so they can hire more police and pay them a decent wage. To their credit, they did institute the tourist police force. I think they will need many more.
These types of threads always get the largest amounts of respondents because they are of real concern to many of us. Having news reports of these acts also makes the government aware that crime is a real hot button for us and they have to do something. Especially now that they might be competing for tourists that may not be traveling as frequently if there is an economic turndown in the US and Europe.This issue definitely needs to be addressed, but I think much would be gained if it was resolved in a typical Costa Rican way, thinking alternatively & non-violently. No doubt that Giuliani changed NYC in good ways, but in doing so, he also threatened things that were part of the flavor of that city not to mention the disparity in treatment that minorities received during his tenure. The police force in Costa Rica has come a long way and although they could always improve, they do catch many of the accused. Unfortunately, the courts cannot keep them because the standing laws were meant for another historical time in Costa Rica. On this issue, all expats that love CR need to work with locals to get the laws changed so that there can be a penalty for a crime committed (whether adult or juvi). However, I would hate for CR to become so intolerant that every minor incident is punished by jail time. The people that cherish that country need to come up with Costa Rican ways to better the situation and not adopt solutions that may have worked elsewhere–they can be a starting point for discussions, but like I said before, my bet is on Costa Ricans and the people who love that beautiful country to come up with creative solutions (excluding Harlon’s acid vats) to this problem. Pura Vida! (—A saying that says so much about the the Costa Rican people!)
I think there is some truth in the theory that an improved economic environment also helped lower crime in NYC. I will also credit Rudy’s policies as well, but crime also dropped all over the country during the same period. More police may not help much in CR when incomes are $300 dollars a month and many are earning less. The temptation to rip off gringos who in reality have plenty is just to great. I must say I have met a number of Policia that were quite kind and helpful, this is Costa Rica not the US so if you are going to live here you have to adapt, as a gringo you are a target. The more you whine the more you will be disliked. You all have it very good there compared to the average Tico, if you can’t handle living in a 3rd world country with all it entails…pack up and move to Arkansas you can buy a nice house in the country for $40k. I don’t mean to sound harsh but what is it you expect? That the average Tico’s wage will magically go up to $2500 per month and the government will effectively extort(ala IRS) 40-50% of that to pay high police wages so the cops will work harder? Not. No one here mentions all the articles in the papers of the cops arresting people as well it really is not the wild west down there. I just watch my a** all the time when in a city or big town, other than that I feel safe.
My take on all this, Lotus? Hmmm . . .
If I wanted to live behind a high wall, with concertina wire, guard dogs, an alarm system, a guard at the gate out front and roving patrols, I’d return to the U.S. and commit a felony. It’s cheaper and you don’t have to face the “container/no container” dilemma.
I don’t mean to make light of security issues, but I seriously believe that anyone’s first consideration ought to be location. There are, to be certain, a disturbing number of home invasions (one being too many), armed robberies (one of those is too many, too), etc., but they do not occur commonly everywhere. Maybe the question one should pose is whether the areas where those events are most common hold enough other attractions to make going or living there worthwhile.
Our friends’ car was stolen in downtown Grecia. The headaches of dealing with INS were worse than replacing the car. In light of that experience, we’ve hardened our car every way we can figure out. So far, our neighborhood has been literally crime-free. Sure, we lock the doors, etc., but before I build Fortess el Cajon I’ll just move someplace more secure.
Costa Rica needs to take an enlightened approach to crime suppression. I’ve long advocated swift, certain and aversive punishment. You don’t have to lock criminals up forever for a first offense, but they do need to be sure that their punishment will be soon, guaranteed, and very, very unpleasant.
By the way, it would be a mistake to believe that police forces in the U.S. typically solve crimes. Many, many murders go unsolved as do other assaultive and property crimes. The apparent high success rate is largely a fabrication of television writers. If police forces in the U.S. are more responsive than they are in Costa Rica, especially as regards property crimes, that may have more to do with insurance settlements, which require police reports, than with crime solving.
Lotus, your post sounds reasonable and is close to my take on this matter. The security I intend to build into my house and living habits is not a prison from my perspective. It is a realistic reaction to a reality and still preferable to staying in the States. There are many homes in Escazu and Santa Ana which have 8 foot walls with concertina wire and dogs and cameras. I will NOT be in those places but those extra secuiriy measures are not that extreme in my opinion. We have to make our own arrangements and not whine about lack of police and enforcement. Those negatives are all part of the whole Costa Rica package, which still has many more good points than bad for me.
In their book “Freakonomics”, Stephen D. Levitt and Stephen J. Dubner, both widely reknowned statisticians, argue very convincingly that the decline in the crime rates in U.S. cities, which is hardly confined to New York City, is more attributable to the availability of legalized abortion than any other factor including Rudi Guiliani(sp?). Because poor women began to have the option to terminate pregnancies beginning in the mid-1970s, they gave birth to far fewer unwanted babies who make up a large part of the population of criminals when they reach their teenage years.
Don’t take my word for it. Read the book. It’s fascinating stuff.
By the way, expat involvement in Costa Rican politics is NOT welcome by Costa Ricans from what I see in their laws. Pay your taxes, follow the laws and help where and when you can but organizing in matters where politics deal with crime should be a big NO NO. We are permanent guests in this country as residents, not activist citizenry. That part of life is left back on the shores of the United States where it can still be exercised, if you are still so inclined to pound sand.
which speaks to the REAL cause… relative poverty. And it must be RELATIVE poverty. Costa Ricans were always poor by OUR standards and did not experience crime like this until foreign money poured into the country. Juxtaposed american wealth next to Costa Rican living standards was bound to have this result.
Like I’ve said before, the causes for crime are typically much more than one aspect…Right now, building tall walls and adding wire are necessary, but it’s not going to be the answer–they will just lean bigger ladders–not to mention how unpleasant it is for the neighborhood cats—my cat was starting to look like a baseball from stitches just for trying to climb my walls in CR :-(. I don’t want Giuliani type “gestapo” policing in my laid back Puerto Viejo or anywhere else in CR. As far as not being welcomed by locals, no one welcomes being told what to do by others, but they sure do appreciate your support because this is not just an expat issue, it’s an every Tico’s issue too…just a thought…Be well my friends, I’m heading for NYC, in a Harlem area that I also love–Columbia University. Pura Vida amigos/as.
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