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How can I truthfully say that as a British citizen that I am free?
Have you seen what’s in a British passport lately?
“This passport remains the property of Her Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom and may be withdrawn at any time.”
[img]https://www.welovecostarica.com/public/images/passport-2.jpg[/img] Does a a U.S. issued passport have something similar?
Yes, Scott, our U.S. Passport, under the subject “Important things to remember about your passport” … item 2 … says:
“U.S. Government Property: This passport is the property of the United States Government. Upon demand made by an authorized representative of the United States Government, it must be surrendered.”
[quote=”Scott”]Amazing eh?
And we are forced to pay for the privilege of applying for and receiving a passport….
[/quote]truly amazing .. but Scott.. the U.S. has a leg up on you Brits..
each new passport also carries a RF chip..
we not only are forced to pay for passport.. but we also have to pay to renounce citizenship when that day comes.
I wonder if the U.S. is actually the only country that one has to pay to renouce citizenship
now here is a good question for Swiekert :?::?::?:
My passport has a chip too davidd
[img]https://www.welovecostarica.com/public/images/passport-chip.jpg[/img]
I feel so much safer now!
[quote=”davidd”][quote=”Scott”]Amazing eh?
And we are forced to pay for the privilege of applying for and receiving a passport….
[/quote]truly amazing .. but Scott.. the U.S. has a leg up on you Brits..
each new passport also carries a RF chip..
we not only are forced to pay for passport.. but we also have to pay to renounce citizenship when that day comes.
I wonder if the U.S. is actually the only country that one has to pay to renouce citizenship
now here is a good question for Swiekert :?::?::?:
Obviously I have not renounced, but have read the horror stories of folks who have. As I understand, the IRS does a full audit from your conception to see if there is anything they missed over the years. They also take a complete inventory of your worldly possessions and you are then taxed one last time. They know that is the last time they get to take from you so it will cost you plenty. The IRS signs off on your paperwork, if you still owe or cant pay, you cannot renounce.
I would think it is easier if you stay broke, then there is nothing to take LOL.
[/quote]
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Scott”]And we are forced to pay for the privilege of applying for and receiving a passport…. [/quote]
What you are paying for is the application processing, not the thing itself. Carrying a nation’s passport [b]is a privilege[/b], not a right. A right can’t be revoked, a privilege can.
To answer the initial question you posed in starting this thread, if you do something that prompts the UK government to revoke your passport, your freedom may be restricted in much more serious ways than the loss of that passport. So no, you don’t have the freedom to behave badly and never did.[/quote]
It is an upside down world of paper instruments with magic symbols and magic spells on them, all designed to hold us captive. The US dollars in your wallet are actually debt instruments. If you hold dollars, you hold debt, not wealth. Your passports are paper chains on your ankles, holding your body captive to the criminals in government.
Your house or car are never owned by you since government also issues “magic paper” to hold those from you in the form of tax bills and registrations.
These pieces of paper work because people believe in the spells and symbols. Those few who do not are easily managed with force and violence.Sweikert
spoken like a true sheeple 🙂
congratulations..
David
[quote=”sweikert925″]All legal credentials issued by government agencies can be revoked at the discretion of the issuer – medical licenses, law licenses, drivers licenses, dog licenses….and passports.
Why does that come as such a surprise to anyone?
As for being investigated to make sure you have paid all the taxes you owe if you should decide to renounce your citizenship, that’s fine with me. It’s time the government went after these greedy freeloading tax cheats that have evaded paying what they owe.[/quote]
sweikert
I will have to disagree with you on that one..boy you really reveal your inner beliefs with some of your statements
you actually scare me..
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Scott”]And we are forced to pay for the privilege of applying for and receiving a passport…. [/quote]
What you are paying for is the application processing, not the thing itself. Carrying a nation’s passport [b]is a privilege[/b], not a right. A right can’t be revoked, a privilege can.
To answer the initial question you posed in starting this thread, if you do something that prompts the UK government to revoke your passport, your freedom may be restricted in much more serious ways than the loss of that passport. So no, you don’t have the freedom to behave badly and never did.[/quote]
David, when you feed quarters into the machine and pull the handle, you already know what happens next, the wheels spin, sometimes you win and most of the time you lose and put more quarters into the machine and do it again. Was it any surprise on the comments following yours? The simple solution to always win, don’t feed quarters into the machine!
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”sprite”]These pieces of paper work because people believe in the spells and symbols. Those few who do not are easily managed with force and violence.[/quote]
Everything in society is based on faith to some degree. That passport gets you admitted to a foreign country because the country you arrive in has faith that the country that issued it has verified that you are who your passport says you are. You arrived at that foreign country by flying on a plane that you had faith was engineered properly, maintained properly and was going to be flown properly to get you safely to your destination. This morning I crossed a street when the traffic light turned green because I had faith that the oncoming cars would stop at their red light. I came into work with faith that a week from Friday my employer will pay me and that the money they pay me will be deposited in my bank account. When I do get paid I have faith that there will be food available to buy because farmers have grown it and the food processors have processed it so that it is safe to eat.
What people choose to be concerned about is completely up to each of them, but man, I have never come across a bunch who tried so hard to find new and unusual things to fret about. So much for “Pura Vida”!
[/quote]I don’t “believe”. I either know or I do not know. Sometimes I can only suspect. But I never believe.
I know that dollars are bankers’ debt notes and are not real money. I know that states and armies are inventions used by sociopaths to gain and hold power.When I exchange these paper notes for real, useful goods, I now understand that I am participating in a world wide delusion. Historically, people have periodically awakened from this delusion and economic chaos has always ensued…usually causing the sociopaths from the state, banks and armies to step in with real violence in the form of wars and/or police states.
So pardon me if I “fret” a little. I am not a delusional believer like you. I have no faith in paper and I have a healthy respect for the danger of sociopaths with uniforms, badges guns.The fact that most of the world is enslaved to varying degrees by a small group of sociopaths AND the fact that their system is also consuming the planet at an alarming rate are both things worthy of concern. I did not say how much concern I feel, I merely said that I am concerned. I don’t walk around with doom on my mind all the time.
However, I just do feel compelled to speak out about these things when I come across what appears to be a total lack of situational awareness.If being free to pursue my happiness involves visiting or relocating to another country why is it that the US government can stop me from doing so by revoking or refusing to issue me a passport if I’ve committed no crime?
Seems more like being kept prisoner than an administrative issue. Being FREE to move freely is a right…. not a privilege as some here have implied. There’s quite a big difference between a medical license and a passport. That was a silly comparison.
[quote=”sweikert925″]I thought this site was called WeLoveCostaRica.com. When did it get changed to WeHateGovernment.com? Was there an announcement I missed?[/quote]
You missed the inference in my posting…. think about my words Steve…. where have you seen similar wording used? Did the folks that used those words…. and those that signed on endorsing those ideals hate government? Or was it that they disliked an overbearing unfair out of control government that was taking away the rights of it’s people and felt the need to free themselves from what they felt was oppression? If in doubt look in your passport (a newer one) it has the quote I’m referencing on page 10.
The original posting in this thread had to do with the statement that governments felt they had the apparent unlimited right to take away your passport at will and thus limit your movement and control your ability to leave your home country, as is also the case with a US passport. NOWHERE in that statement does it LIMIT the government’s ability to simply take away that right. It simply states it must be “surrendered upon demand made by an authorized representative of the US government”! That’s a pretty vague and broad statement. And one which contains NO provision for due process of law, appeal, or limits ! Had the statement included the statement that should you be charged or under active law enforcement investigation for a crime perhaps we wouldn’t so concerned.
Sheep will be sheep…. remember the NSA is spying on 300+ million Americans because there’s 10,000 terrorist out there plotting to do folks harm…. yet more people die every day from tobacco use then have ever died at the hands of terrorist…. and who’s the biggest recipient of the money folks spend killing themselves…. yep…. the same people telling us there doing everything they can to keep us safe!
[quote=”sweikert925″]The only cases I’ve ever heard about where a passport was revoked by the issuing government were due to the passport’s bearer being suspected of a serious crime.
Are people here really arguing for the rights of evildoers to flee and avoid prosecution for their crimes? It seems that some of you are pro-bad guys here. Tax cheats, child molesters, rapists and murderers – sure, let them have their freedom to travel with no big bad government restrictions. Well, I’m going to come down on the other side of that question.[/quote]
The fact that people are even having to ecxplain their position to you is quite alarming. It seems that everyone on this thread, except you, understood what Scott was saying about the verbiage in his passport. It’s not about having it taken away if you commit a crime, it is about the fact that they can take it for any reason, or without reason, or if they feel like it. The ability to restrict your wish to cross an imaginary country border rest not in your hands, but those that control the governments.
I find it amazing that you actually want to move away from the nanny state you seem to support via your comments. When and if you do move away from the US, I think you might gain a better understanding of why the majority of folks have no desire to ever go back to the US.
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