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Diego, lighten up a bit, huh. And no, this is not a veiled racial remark. We’re all a bit ignorant on some issues, and carry our own set of prejudices through life. We just should have the decency to respect other peoples feelings.
I really think you do this purely for the rise you get out of some of us. I myself use provocative remarks on occasion to keep the entertainment going, but still try to keep them within limits. Yes, self imposed limits.
I don’t think my membership in those organizations is in jeopardy. As a conservative, they wouldn’t want me anyway. This is not a qualifying statement, just a point of fact. Still, I’ve always tried to respect other people’s point of view, and have expanded my own by reading their comments.
Now go ahead, pick this post apart and have some fun.
Diego: And on the subject of doing, why don’t you stop all this ranting and actually become part of a much needed solutions in CR by working respectfully with Ticos/as? Complaining about what others (Ticos/as) haven’t done or that they are not “competent” or “logical” enough (your words Diego) to get things done is beginning to look like a sorry excuse for your own lack of action. But of course, your “incompetent” & “illogical” comments about Ticos must have been meant in the nicest of ways by you–These words drip of the reason people in Latin America and throughout the world find some “gringos” obnoxious! My problem with your remarks are that they are NOT geared at someone’s actions, they are spewing negative generalizations about a group of people even if you don’t mind if they’re “chartreuse” (your word again)–hmm, reads racist to me. Do you think Ticos/as are only there for your entertainment and truly lack any capacity to govern their own country? Charming way to show just how much you like someone–as you say you do….There is much to be done for conservation and preservation in CR, I have physically participated when its been in the realm of my possibilities and I continue to support those actions from abroad. What have you done other than rant about others’ inactivity and my contempt for your veiled prejudice? Add LIFE to your years and be part of CR’s conservation efforts without seeking to have top billing or denying what Ticos are not only capable of, but what they have already accomplished!
Diego – Careful what you wish for, I have been “working” with the same county of Riverside to split 40 acres into 4 ten acre parcels in an area that is zoned for 5 acre parcels. So far it has taken $106,000 and 2.5 years and we still don’t have the final map. And no, there are no special circumstances – roads, water & electricity are all available. The so called planning of the Coachella Valley has allowed unfettered development to the point we just as well be living in Orange County with all of the walled communities and wall to wall commercial developments. The beauty of the desert has been concreted over and the local agriculture (table grapes, dates and citrus mainly) has been desimated.
I see the Costa Rican local governments waking up and trying to protect their country from the same indisciminent development, it doesn’t happen overnight but I see it happening.
rf2cr
I have had extensive experience segregating property in Riverside County. Mostly in Temecula. I still own almost 200 acres there. My point was that it did not take them long to create the plan. Now working within the plan is another completely different story.
My last post was written to prove a point.
One: That those who rely on emotional hot buttons to back their play get caught up in them and the conversation goes no where. Witness Aragon.
Two: That anybody can read anything into whatever someone writes, as I did to Alfred. Of course I know that was not a racist remark about “over the top.” But do you see how easy it is for me to spin it that way? So be wary of your own mind when it comes to interpreting the words of others. think about it first. Then think about it again.
I am not here to pick apart posts but to have some meaningful interaction – but when some people use the race card for their own purpose – well its despicable and always gets everyone off-point. Get over past injustice; get over the color of your hair, eyes or skin. – we all have the obligation to present our best self to the world and this is not done by being divisive by championing you and your particular race or class victimization.
Yes racism does exist – no we do not have to focus on it in this form.
Alfred you bought into that hoax??? See how easy it is to read in??
Ms Aragon your post exposes your hatred and most likely your envy. Envy of what? You answer that for yourself.
Don Diego – over and out of here baby!
Edited on Oct 16, 2007 10:36
Rf2cr: Thank you for the info. It’s always a mix of things everywhere. Things sometimes take longer than we expect or we would wish for, but I have great hopes that CR will find sustainable solutions for the leatherback problem as it has for other species that had almost vanished from the area and today appear to be thriving. There’s so much that needs to be done and I hope Ticos/as consider the options very carefully so that they don’t have to backtrack or regret their choices. Also, whatever their plan, it has to be an enforceable one. Costa Rica is filled with some great thinkers, a lot of activist and community leaders that I’m sure are working towards conservation solutions needed. Those groups are always willing to accept any assistance they can get when offered in good faith. The people in the municipalities are sometimes easy to get along with and as with all human social groups, sometimes they can have difficult personalities, but they too wouldn’t reject any help that is offered with respect and in the spirit of assisting and not in the spirit of telling “children” what has to be done.
Alfred: I agree that we can disagree without going over the line. Some of the people that we love most can have very divergent views from our own without it limiting us from genuinely loving them. You and I may not share some of the same political views, but I appreciate the respect and dignity evident in your posts.
Mr. Diego: Don’t project your personal issues on others, the only one spewing hate and condescension left and right has been yourself–it’s all over your posts and it’s tiresome to have to keep copying your own biased words to throw them in your face–even then you seem to be blind to them. Now, can you stop ranting and make a point about conservation that can be addressed without you making it about your bias against Ticos, people that disagree with you or about your assumptions of me? Be assured that I don’t hate you Mr. Diego. Even if you have given me no reason to like you, I’m absolutely sure that you must have some good qualities that you choose to share with others. If you cannot perceive my sincerity, then that will be also be your own issue because I certainly mean it. I make a conscious choice not to hate people–I find it a wasteful and non-productive emotion that only damages the very essence of who we are. I also choose not to be silent when confronted with words that convey disrespect and disdain of others based on thoughtless generalities. Now, you think you can talk about conservation or do you just enjoy thinking of yourself as a victim?
Diego, May I please ask you for a huge favor? Don’t let whatever experience you can bring to the table be lost by coloring them with remarks that you may consider funny, sarcastic or appropriate, but which most undoubtedly will be considered offensive to Ticos/as. I actually forwarded some of your posts to a dear friend of mine who works in MINAE and his reaction and the reaction of his peers were even more heated than mine. Costa Rica is going to need all of the help it can get to go forward and truly create a zoning plan that considers all of the factors necessary for a sustainable development they can be proud of and not one just in name. I love CR and if you can provide any insights that could make their journey better, I’m the first one for it. This conservation endeavor doesn’t require that all of its supporters be from the US, from CR or any other place, it just requires people that wish to work together toward making CR a great place for biodiversity and sustainable development for its people. Wouldn’t you agree? I think you mentioned that you own property in CR/maybe live there part of the year–I haven’t had that privilege in 6 years even if I do visit frequently so right now you have the ability to be present physically and contribute first hand. Can we go forward from here?
Rebeca, Political views can divide, or lead to change and some form of understanding. My reason for mentioning mine, was I am fully aware many on this site do not share my basic political views as far as the “label” is concerned. Yet I find common ground with many, and am aware that everyone has a valid point of view. To be narrow-minded would perpetuate ignorance. We all share the same planet, and each of us have an idea of what is best. The usual US attitude, whether Lib or Con, or somewhere in the middle is, “My way is best don’t try to push your beliefs on me.” While it is good to have convictions and values, they should not close your mind to differing opinions. I have met many fine individuals here, you included, and hope to continue interacting with them. Beyond our political or religious labels, we are people, each and every one of us.
Diego, what can I say? I hope that was a hoax. I know how you like to test us and make us think. In that, you do a good job. I found myself hoping you did not actually believe some of the things you said. Every now and then some of the things you say livens up the conversation. Sometimes it does turn this into a shouting match. I’m not telling you how to think or what to say. I’ve read some other posts of yours that shows you are a very generous person. It would be beneficial to my blood pressure if the nice Diego would show up more frequently. This is only a suggestion.
Racism is a serious thing. I think some of it has to do with over sensitivity, a loss of humor and the ability to laugh at ourselves. Most of it is downright wrong. A couple of times I have been its “victim” and I know I didn’t like it all that much. Like I said before, many of us have our own set of prejudices about people that are usually borne out of ignorance. Until you interact with a wide mix of different nationalities and races, you may hold onto these beliefs. When you realize most people, though they have differing customs, are essentially much like ourselves, you find it easier to relate to everyone. Other people have similar desires and dreams as many of us. Any preconceived notions I had about Central Americans, were totally dispelled by visiting Costa Rica. Traveling as a minority in a country where you really do not speak the language, gave me a humbling experience, and has given me a respect for others I never could have gotten any other way. Since visiting Costa Rica, I have studied their culture probably more than I’ve learned about my own. I have learned more about Latin America as a whole in the past few years because of my experiences in CR. This has changed many of my opinions, I think, for the better.
If you really want to see how we are all connected, do a DNA test for your heritage. You may be surprised by what you find. In fact, I know you will. If you decide to do it, I guarantee you will look at others in a whole new light. You will realize we are all related in some way, and we all are human, with each of us having tremendous value.
Dear Alfred, I absolutely agree with you and I want to let you know that it has truly been a pleasure to read your posts and that of most people in the forum, even when they have been divergent from my own. When we do stop to listen to those with different experiences and ideas, we usually expand our own and for that I’m extremely grateful to all. Although prejudice can exist in the heart of all of us since it seems a natural tendency to formulate US and the OTHER, every nation has its own shadow in this respect–Even when it might just be viewed as extreme nationalism–as seemed to be the case during the years I lived in Venezuela. I wasn’t confronted with some of its frightening magnitude until the US gov’t moved my family from Caracas to Miami in 1971 (racial riots, police, tear gas in primary schools, the neighborhoods that belonged to one group and “shouldn’t” be walked thru by another, on and on) . Some of us have had the privileged to have been born at the “right” time, in the “right” place, with the prevalent skin color, with decent economic conditions and from loving people that have protected us from personally experiencing the hardships that prejudice can impose with a heartless iron fist–but that doesn’t make it any less destructive human expression. As I’m sure you can tell from my posts, I do not happen to feel helpless nor “less than” just because I happen to be part of a minority in the US and that’s not only because I have had certain privileges, but also because I too believe that we’re ALL more alike than we are different. Even if I never did a typical DNA test, I have clues from my family’s physical characteristics, my family name and history as to where my recent evolutionary history lies, but what’s even more compelling to me is that all of our mitochondrial DNA. This genetic material which is within a human organelle that powers our cells, became part of us so very long ago, is only passed on from mother to child and happens to break up all of humanity within less than 10 groups which then leads us ALL back to the SAME place and the SAME single group–you don’t get more similar than that.
Costa Rica has been incredibly blessed and has an amazing magical life force that can be profoundly enlightening. To see Corcovado, Parque La Amistad, Braulio Carrillo from a distance and to walk through their ancestral forests are intense experiences. To sit next to a gentle prehistoric creature like the Demochelys coriacea (Leatherbacks) which is so much bigger than most of us and watch its efforts to live, to reproduce, to coexist with other species in its midst and to know the odds of this animal having made it to that point is an honor that Costa Rica has been able to be part of and that I truly hope it will continue to enjoy. CR is geologically one of the newest parts of the Americas and has been a converging bridge for species from the North and the South for animals and cultures alike from its inception. Today, the convergence is so much greater with people of different cultures from all over the planet actually knowing a bit about that wonderful place and so many choosing to call it their adopted home. In the 80s when I said CR to someone, people said where? Puerto Rico, is that an island? Today that’s certainly changed and CR has become very popular. Most of us who love CR also support its conservation efforts without forgetting the social, economic and cultural sides because its always such a terrible loss when LIFE hangs in the balance for any species or group. When you consider CR’s amazing biodiversity per square meter, it makes it such a travesty to loose any of it and with it, not only a part of our human soul, but our very own probabilities of existence which are inextricably affected with the loss of every species on this beautiful and closed system planet we inhabit. The energies and resources within it are all we get to work with and live from–except for a few meteors that get in and some gases that may escape, the matter we need for life is recycled matter. Self-transcending life never forgets or destroys its past, in our case, we are humans, we are animals, we are chemicals and although all life is full of much more synergy than just the sum of our parts, we are physically recycled as such. One characteristic of Life is action and so if we choose on the side of Life, then we must also choose to act with it in mind because all of Life is not only the product of some blind biochemical force, Life is about the choices each organism makes–in the end, it’s not about the Life we (ALL living things) are given, but about the Life we make. The most successful (abundant) life forms on this planet have become so because they have teamed up. Life is an incredible product of individuals evolving within their joint symbiotic actions. We can either be part of CR’s and this planet’s conservation solutions or watch our own demise. One thing that many people believe, but that I don’t think is commonly stressed enough is that humans will NOT be the last to extinguish—by a long shot! Our ability for self-deception is always astounding and as one of my favorite books states (“What is Life”): “If humankind does not conduct a sentient symphony, with or without us, Life will go on…Nature does not end with us, but moves inexorably on, beyond societies of animals.” Pura Vida Alfred, I LOVE that saying! 🙂
PS. Alfred, I just wanted to clarify one point because I don’t know if I was very clear about it. Just like all living organisms, the global ecosystem we live in is open. This is evident with the solar energy that enters our atmosphere and allows for the very transmutation and existence of Life. It’s also evident in the heat/energies that flow from living organisms, but in the ‘material exchange’ of things, this planet is a closed system.
Beautifully stated, Rebeca. We all are more than just the sum total of our parts. Breaking down our being just to chemicals, can have the effect of reducing our worth to the sum total of our chemical value, which in today’s market, most likely is still under $100. I believe in the words Thomas Jefferson wrote in our national document, The Declaration of Independence, that “We are endowed by our creator with certain unalienable rights.” He believed, as I do, that we did not create ourselves, and therefore are bound to respect and protect all of creation. We are the stewards of the world, like it or not. We are one of the only creatures with the ability to change its environment. This is a responsibility that should be taken seriously.
Pura Vida, it does have a nice ring.
I just finished reading an article about new species being found in the depths of the Celebes sea, which is south of the Philippines. We still don’t know everything about our planet, or what is living on it, or in it. New discoveries happen all the time, and we may never know to the full extent, the variety of life we live with. Preservation of the Leatherback turtle is just one of the challenges facing us. Who knows what discoveries will be made in the plant world. The key to many cures for illness may lie in the rain forest, or a plant growing in a back lot. Much as some of my brethren will argue about “tree huggers,” taking a back seat to development, there is an important reason for conservation and research.
One of the reasons CR receives so much international attention regarding biodiversity is not only because there are an enormous amount of known species per square meter in that little country, but because of the what is supposed that we still don’t know–from one celled animals to more complex arrangements. Columbia has much more birds in its territory than CR, but not more per square meter. It is the immense concentration of species co-existing in such varied types of ecosystems and Life Zones that are astounding.
Not only can many of the world’s species have beneficial aspects for humanity, but they have their own intrinsic right to exist (inalienable as Jefferson would put it–I also love much of the Jeffersonian thought I’ve read). Insects, fungi, land & water microorganisms are not typically on the forefront of popular conservation, but they’re also part of this amazing world we’re only a mere part of. You mentioned that we have a responsibility to take care of all life. Well, I agree. We’re creatures that have actually transformed our own evolutionary processes and the possibility of evolution of other species not only with our actions but with our technologies. We have and will continue to pay the price (good and bad) if we don’t fully grasp that the intrinsic right of ALL living beings to exist. Now, mind you, I’m not promoting Ebola sp. be dispersed throughout the world, but you can’t forget that IT got out because we invaded it’s space and there is a reason for it to exist. Who knows what it’s natural function may have been no matter how distasteful it may sound to us today. Relationships in nature tend to be geared for balance (and that doesn’t mean ALL equal in population/strength), it’s more of a dynamic balance. Some species evolve to function in a way that prevents over population and destruction of the whole ecosystem by keeping some in check. Maybe we need to consider Life more holistically than just revolving around us as humans or about the animals we take a particular liking to, but more with the humbleness that comes when facing the amazing strength of Nature or when you realize that as much as you may know, there is still SO much that we do not have answers to…..and wouldn’t it be nice if we could all get a chance to try to figure some of those things out before it’s to late. In the meantime, we all do what we can and hopefully we will be able to do more in the future–for Baulas and all of other species that are facing extinction on this planet right now without forgetting the social context in which these species live… Pura Vida Amigo!
Yesterday I was listening to public radio here in the US. They were talking about the breeding grounds in Costa Rica of the turtles. The big mystery is where they go after they hatch and move out on the sea. They say they swim feverishly nonstop for about 24 hours, then move off to open waters. The problem is, scientists are not able to locate large groups to study habits of feeding and migration. This is why they are not sure how many die off in the wild due to predators or pollution or other natural causes.
More study has to be done to prevent them from becoming extinct.
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