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David-
I spun out a detailed response to your 10:54AM email, but it never appeared, so the forum may have timed out on me before it was sent. I’ll try to reconstruct from memory [always risky]
You wrote:
“Well, what are those examples that are making you nervous? And what is the source of them?
[snip]
But please, tell us specifically what’s on your mind.”So, I have a number of perceptions based on personal experience and what I see in blogs, websites, and emails. Taken together my perceptions may range from “probably accurate” to “plausible” to “absurd”. If mine are wrong, I’m open to enlightenment. Examples:
1. Violent crime {against NON-TICOS} is increasing (I have seen Scott’s January summary of national crime data for 2010, but it doesn’t distinguish between Ticos and “wealthy gringo” targets;
2. Some of the major reasons for this are the expansion of thuggery associated with the drug trade, and also the 30 year influx of Nicos, some of which are unemployed and unemployable, and illegal [this is not a blanket bigoted statement – when I lived in C.R., I knew [u]many[/u] estimable Nicos and surely the same is true now];
3. The effectiveness of law enforcement is decreasing [for a variety of reasons];
4. The U.S. government is increasing its intrusion into the lives of expats [in part this can happen only via international agreements – banking is one example];
5. The cost of living is rising faster than the inflation rate, making C.R. not quite the bargain it was [this may be easy to disprove, but I am unable to do so];
6. Bureaucracy, bureaucracy, bureaucracy. [I agree that in C.R. the bureaucracy may be “just different”, but there seems to be less accountability for the maddening aspects of the day-to-day bureaucracy. Differences in language are not part of it. It’s more like a lack of simple logic in day-to-day problem solving resulting in a waste of time and effort for all involved. Perhaps I need a bureaucracy vaccination to immunize myself. I also spent a career dealing with public and private bureaucrats. Many of them are afflicted with various combinations of ignorance, disaffection, and apathy. Your tagline from Krugman is operative here.]Much as I appreciate your comments, I’m hoping it doesn’t remain a dialogue.
Phargtake everything you read on blogs with a big dose of salt. they are usually written by some whiny gringo who has never lived outside the US before coming here. yes, the cost of living has gone up — blame your gringo brethren on that. i don’t like the crime, or the larceny that seems pervasive, but that;s just the way it is and is worse in some big metro areas of the US. like scott, i love living here. but then i speak fluent spanish, have lived in a half dozen other countries, and am not daunted by stupid bureaucrazy.
[quote=”RaggedJack”]I understand that we in the US have it better than most, but I’d rather live in an atmosphere of hope and optimism about the future than feeling the walls closing in from all sides the longer I live.
Let ’em raise the rent, I’m still packing![/quote]
RaggedJack. I can’t agree with you more. It is amazing to me how many public and private companies have defaulted on their pension obligations in the past. And now, cities and states are seriously considering reneging on their pension obligations.
I just came back from CR. I spent three weeks almost exclusively observing and talking to people in different cities, Grecia, Alajuela, Atenas, San Jose, San Ramon, etc. What impressed me the most is that I saw in the average person hope and optimism, happiness, and the absence of the chronic stress we have in the States. I talked to people at the parks, on the street, in the market.
Of course, I don’t like the increase in crime in CR. I don’t like the idea of installing iron barriers on windows and locking the doors at night, or having dogs to bark at strangers, or finding someone to sit the house while away.
But, I rather take those inconveniences than live here, where as you aptly put it [b]”feeling the walls closing in from all sides”[/b]. Where city, state, and federal taxes will continue to go up. Medical benefits continue to decrease, deductibles increase, prescribed medications hit unbeliable heights, etc.
I am also packing my bags.
I am packing my bag (singular) and returning with the same bag to the USA. Will be in Pura Vida at the end of the month for 2 weeks for the 100th time in my lfe
If you made an investment like buying property in CR, I bet you you will not say “What a mistake” I made.
RENT and find out if it is for you.
warren
i just heard of two more people i know who are going back to the States after being here for only a year. one person said this culture was just not for them; the other said living here was too difficult. when i asked what was the most difficult part about it they replied “not speaking spanish,” which i quickly pointed out was easily remedied and when i asked why they didn’t take spanish lessons, they said it was too stressful. go figure they were both happy they were renters!!
[i][b]Responses in italics . . .[/b][/i]
pharg, you wrote . . .
I have a number of perceptions based on personal experience and what I see in blogs, websites, and emails. Examples:
1. Violent crime {against NON-TICOS} is increasing (I have seen Scott’s January summary of national crime data for 2010, but it doesn’t distinguish between Ticos and “wealthy gringo” targets;
[i][b]Nor does any other data reflect crime based on nationality, so one shouldn’t jump to conclusions not based on fact. What’s more, all crime statistics are very open to bias and interpretation.[/b][/i]
2. Some of the major reasons for this are the expansion of thuggery associated with the drug trade, and also the 30 year influx of Nicos, some of which are unemployed and unemployable, and illegal [this is not a blanket bigoted statement – when I lived in C.R., I knew [u]many[/u] estimable Nicos and surely the same is true now];
[i][b]If, in fact, there is a major uptick in crime (regardless of the nationality of the victim), that is consistent with a worldwide trend that applies equally wherever you live today. Costa Rica is likely safer in terms of major crime than any U.S. state. And, like your current home, if you avoid the worst areas and don’t do abjectly stupid things, then your exposure will be minimal.[/b] [/i]
3. The effectiveness of law enforcement is decreasing [for a variety of reasons];
[i][b]Another widespread trend that is hardly unique to Costa Rica.[/b][/i]
4. The U.S. government is increasing its intrusion into the lives of expats [in part this can happen only via international agreements – banking is one example];
[i][b]Yup, Uncle Sam would like to have his fingers in every pie including having a major influence on the relationship between a woman and her doctor. There’s no escaping it. Being in Costa Rica will not expose you to any more U.S. intrusion into your life than staying put[/b].[/i]
5. The cost of living is rising faster than the inflation rate, making C.R. not quite the bargain it was [this may be easy to disprove, but I am unable to do so];
[i][b]Yup again. It’s just like in the U.S. The difference is that in Costa Rica you have more choices. You can, for instance, opt to live in a hot and humid beach community and pay $500 or $600 for electricity each month. Or you can live in the Central Valley where most folks have neither heat nor air conditioning. Where in the U.S. can you live without either? And while motor fuel is expensive here, distances are generally less, so the net cost of transportation can be less. And then there’s the cost of medical care . . . and much of the food . . .[/b][/i]
6. Bureaucracy, bureaucracy, bureaucracy. [I agree that in C.R. the bureaucracy may be “just different”, but there seems to be less accountability for the maddening aspects of the day-to-day bureaucracy. Differences in language are not part of it. It’s more like a lack of simple logic in day-to-day problem solving resulting in a waste of time and effort for all involved. Perhaps I need a bureaucracy vaccination to immunize myself. I also spent a career dealing with public and private bureaucrats. Many of them are afflicted with various combinations of ignorance, disaffection, and apathy. Your tagline from Krugman is operative here.]
[i][b]So Costa Rica is worse how? What have been your own actual experiences? Or are you reading the popular “press” again? [/b][/i]
Much as I appreciate your comments, I’m hoping it doesn’t remain a dialogue.
[i][b]Dave[/b][/i]
Everybody who believes there will be no financial collapse of the world economy and dollar killing, pension killing and social security killing US dollar inflation, raise your hands.
You guys get to have hope that there WILL be a little of your pension retirement money still around to be reduced and taxed.
For the rest of you, those who suspect a true catastrophe coming, pensions and taxes won’t have to be worried about at all since they won’t even exist.I have lived in Florida for 22 years. Prior to that I lived in New York City. I left New York because of an increase in crime and the cost of living. I retired from the Postal Service 4 years ago and I am now living on my retirement. Taxes on my home have gone up 14% in the last year alone. The cost of food seems to have doubled. Crime has gotten out of hand. Gasoline prices are $3.32 a gallon for regular. Thank goodness I am a vegetarian, because the prices of meat has also gone sky high.
I have researched moving to Costa Rica, Panama and Uruguay. I decided to try each one out for a few months. I definitely will rent in each place before I decide to buy. I believe it is the smart thing to do especially since there are so many changes going on all over. I am going to Costa Rica first. I truly hope that things work out for me there because I favor Costa Rica over Panama and Uruguay.
No matter where I choose to settle, I truly believe that it is time to move on. It is too expensive and dangerous living in the U.S.
Margie Greene
[quote=”DavidCMurray”]…… one shouldn’t jump to conclusions not based on fact.
David-
Your opinions are grist for the mill, of course. However, as I pointed out, these were my perceptions, not my conclusions, and I welcome the input of those more knowledgeable in these areas than I.
phargI don’t understand how reasonable people can possibly believe that Costa Rica would be free from the consequences of the world economic system falling apart. Unless you are totally self sufficient and completely cut off from the current monetary system, you are going to feel the effects no matter where you are on the planet. If it is a matter of degree, then perhaps Costa Rica is a better choice than the epicenter of the problem. North Americans who complain about CR tax increases sound unreasonable. The places where you can run to where little or no taxation is found are not going to be easy places to survive.
[quote=”maravilla”]i just heard of two more people i know who are going back to the States after being here for only a year. one person said this culture was just not for them; the other said living here was too difficult. when i asked what was the most difficult part about it they replied “not speaking spanish,” which i quickly pointed out was easily remedied and when i asked why they didn’t take spanish lessons, they said it was too stressful. go figure they were both happy they were renters!![/quote]
Wow. I don’t speak Spanish (other than very, very basic) either, but I am starting Rosetta Stone to deal with that. It isn’t free, but it’s cheaper than a flight to CR and I can fit it into MY schedule. And what better way to accelerate learning a language than to LIVE in the middle of it??
I’m a pretty good mechanic, but not because of a book or a tape, but because I never had the money to have other people fix my cars. And I hung around with other broke-@$$ people who all helped each other fix their stuff. We lived in the middle of it and we learned it.
Rosetta Stone is cool, but I figure in CR, I will learn the [i]most[/i] from the guy next door or a friendly bartender or local tutor.
The single, most important factor which will facilitate learning Spanish is a burning DESIRE to do so. Without that desire, whatever Spanish you may pick up or learn from necessity along the way will remain insufficient to really appreciate the culture in which you find yourself. You can get by on limited Spanish…you can even get by, they say, on no Spanish….but that is all you will ever do …get by. I see many Latin immigrants here in Miami who never master English and their experience of this country is very diminished because of it.
I continue to be amazed at the naive attitude many expats have about living in a foreign country without speaking the language. It should come as no surprise that they begin to feel a strong sense of alienation after a short time. Maybe that is why so many sequester themselves behind the walls of their gated communities…and later, give up entirely and return to the States or Canada.
what is the latest news on the proposed 15% tax?
Has this bad idea been dropped, or is it likely to happen?
The 15% tax increase will pass eventually and I find the comments from Pharg right on spot. CR is not inmune to the NARCO traffic that exists between Mexico and Colombia all of Central America is now involved “big time”. Drug interdiction in Puntarenas is on the rise.
The road congestion grows every day and the Auto EXPO just sold 5,000 cars in a week.
The corruption and mismanagement from the Govm. is just like in any other country.
The cost of living is not going down or stabilizing, it keeps going north.
What I find increadible to belive is that studies from outside agencies have told CR not to graduate anymore college individuals because there are “NO” jobs for them in the private or public arena and this is not a phenomenom that applies to CR. It is happening in the island of Puerto Rico where the unemployment is close to 22% and they are leaving in droves to the USA to the tune of 2,000 per month but these are highly educated people and they have no problem coming to the USA since they are citizens.
Lucky PR that has an escape valve but not the same for CR. (they are trapped).
Now look at Detroit which in 1980 had 2 plus million people in that city. The last census had them at 750,000.
Have I bashed CR enought, YES I have and the irony is that I will move to CR in 2 years. You might ask; WHY?? and it is because my wife is from that country and I will retire in 2 years.
You just have to pick your poison or your perfume carefully or be one of those 60% of expats that leave CR. after the first 2 years.
In 1975 I visited CR. for the first time when the exchange rate was 6 colones to a dollar and lived there for 2 years, since then I have gone there more han 100 times and seen the changes, the GOOD, the BAD and the UGLY.
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