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Thanks Scott for the chain letter I already forward it to the “asambleistas”
regards rafaelEdited on Nov 12, 2008 19:11
SumaSAL…. Can you give us some idea how stopping the flow of investment into CR will be a positive thing for anyone? Do you really think that the few “rich” pensionados and fewer REALLY “rich” rentistas able to meet the new requirements will improve the working conditions for the folks in CR looking for work? Remember well that in the world of supply and demand when there are more people looking for work then there are positions… the pay goes DOWN! There’s no doubt there will be few jobs available. It will be an employers market. I’ve often had to pay above scale to get the right people. And I’m glad to do it! When the bottom falls out of the employment market… the “rich” expats out there will be able to name their price… and Tico’s will be happy to find the work! That’s not a situation I want my Tico friends and neighbors to have to deal with!
Edited on Nov 13, 2008 03:08
Another positiv effect of this law is that everybody has to contribute to the CCSS (caja).
Still there are no exact figures about how many pensionados/rentistas are affected/involved in this new law.
Neither does it say exactly what happens with renewals.
What do “older” people contribute to an economy other than spending their money ? What do they produce ? What is the effect on the health-system ? I think they just enjoy the sun in their gated communities.
And maybe this government thinks that there are enough pensionados….. It is more than just a question about you and me and our friends being in this country.
To my friend sumaSAL,
Just enjoying the sun in a gated community is not such a bad pursuit is it?
You ask for figures about how many pensionados/rentistas will be affected by this law. Considering no one keeps accurate figures, this simply will not be known and in the long run, it is irrelevant. If Costa Rica is perceived as being unfriendly to foreigners then not only will foreigners move to the next destination du jour, Costa Rica’s reputation will greatly suffer and Costa Ricans will suffer those consequences in addition to the global financial turmoil that is taking place right now.
Keeping pensioners out of the country is short sighted. Numerous, well regarded studies convincingly prove that the supposed drain on a medical system that pensioners are reputedly guilty of is simply not true. Older people can thrive and remain healthy in a positive and friendly environment that Costa Rica can provide. And Costa Rica can profit from these people.
I will only speak for myself and my wife as potential rentistas but we had plans. Good plans, no big rush, but we had the idea that we would start a business a few years down the line and hire Ticos and not at dollar an hour rates. But we would have done it in an environmentally sustainable way. Costa Rican people would have gained and, more importantly, nature would have been minimally impacted. Not now.
We’ll move on. We can. We are in the fortunate position of being able to pick and choose where we go. We would have been more than happy to contribute to the country of Costa Rica but it is a two way street. We can forsake some things for ‘pura vida’ but not to the extent that we feel that we are being taken advantage of simply because we are perceived as being rich foreigners.
sumaSAL, this policy is wrong headed and will rob the country of needed capital and brainpower. It seems you support this new policy. Please reconsider.
Reconsider ??? The way we talk here on this forum is in fact micro-economical (about your and my situation).
If we think long-term-macro-economical (and sociological) we have to realize that, with the current possibilities to get a visa, tens of thousands pensionados can come to Costa Rica. Tens of thousands is a lot on this small population.
How much is $ 600 ? How much is $ 1,200 ? Enough at this moment (± 660,000 col) to survive. But on the long term ? With an official inflation of 10% -unofficialy much more- in let’s say 7-8 years those $ 600 (or $ 1,200) will not be very much anymore.
What is Costa Rica going to do if so many (excuse the word) “poor-pensionados” come to live here ? If the pensions don’t go up with 10% a year, the pensionados will become realy poor…..
By the way: you are (heartily) welcome to enjoy the sun, the country etc., I do the same 😉
Gee… I wonder if “OfftoPanamawego.com” is available…. might be the next big thing! LOL
I’ll take a wait and see on this issue… Oscar and the boys can’t be THAT foolish… but then again… he’s shown that he isn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer lately! Let’s all hope that when it comes up to debate… they see the error in cutting off what it a very important stream of investment and job creation.
Edited on Nov 13, 2008 06:00
A couple of you have made mention of the fact that there are plenty of other attractive destinations for us pensionado-types. I’d like a little more information, please.
When we decided to leave the U.S., I did extensive Internet searches for destinations. Costa Rica and Belize kept popping up, but there really didn’t seem to be many good alternatives. And Belize appears to be very hot and humid.
Initially, we’d have preferred to live in an English-speaking country, but New Zealand and Australia won’t even consider residency for retirees. I even looked at Canada, snow and all (yuk!) but they, too, won’t afford residency to pensioners.
I’d appreciate some well thought out details on the alternatives.
Sadly, I can empathize with the Costa Rican government’s disinclination to become a haven for financially distressed North Americans. There are some 65 million U.S.baby boomers in the pipeline and many of them are not financially prepared for retirement. Were I looking for economic development, I’d be looking among the well-to-do, not among the less affluent.
What remains most troubling to me is the implication for the bill currently under consideration with regard to those already here and who have obtained or applied for residency. If the Costa Rican government can dispossess those with less than $2,000US per month in income this year, they can similarly dispossess those with less than $10,000US per month next year.
Davis two countries that come to mind are Uruguay and Ecuador, but this is what friends tell me. I have not researched either other than a few Internet passes.
Lotus mentioned two possible spots… both have their own good points and bad. The reason most of us picked CR was for the mix of climates, natural beauty, the people, secure/stable government, the culture, lower cost of living, travel ease, being American friendly, widespread english, good currency exchange, and how similar things are to home. There really aren’t too many places that have that many things going for them. Hence the reason we made the choice of CR.
But then again…. with the money CR wants new imports to have now… ALL those things can be overcome! Funny things about money…. it can make life a lot easier sometime!
Edited on Nov 13, 2008 06:03
I have friends who are now thinking of Argentina or Uruguay as their next destination, and from what I remember about BA it is a very livable city, but they too have their own inflation, crime, over-crowding problems. I can’t imagine anyone picking CR because it is similar to home — well, it may be eventually after all the gringos insist that things change for them to be more like the place they left. I don’t want to live in a place that is like the one I’m leaving! In fact, that Mayan fishing village I lived in years ago is sounding better all the time. There are still places in Italy that are affordable; likewise in France. And although it isn’t likely that I’d have to leave CR because of these new requirements when I’m already eligible for permanent status based on my length of time there and the fact that I’m an artist and have a CR company, if I did leave, I’d be on the next plane to Provence. Mexico initiated this same kind of plan about ten years ago — they raised the requirements for residency from $800 a month to $2500, locking out a big segment of retirees. There reasoning was that they didn’t want anymore poor people; they had enough of their own to deal with.
davidcmurray, even though I have not extensively researched pensioner programs in other countries (I have a little while to go yet before reaching that esteemed status), I would seriously consider Thailand and Malaysia. Both have excellent medical facilities and both offer the benefit of being able to hire reliable caregivers at reasonable rates. There are cooler areas in both countries as well. I seem to remember a Malaysian program named “grey hairs program” that specifically catered to pensioners. Check it out.
You hit the nail on the head regarding your comment on the issue of uncertainty for residents be they actually resident or in the process of applying. Raising the requirements of one category by 350% or so and the other by 500%, makes many people very nervous of the very same thing happening again in short order. So why be nervous when one can go elsewhere?
sumaSAL, long term economics and letting in tens of thousands of pensioners would make some sense as long as they were financially solvent and your comment about inflation is well chosen. The Costa Rican government has paid too little attention to this threat to people’s income, both foreigners and Ticos. Is $600 per month too low? Highly likely as it gives too little leeway to those individuals who will be faced with inflationary pressures. Catering to pensioners and their unique set of desires is a lucrative business and Costa Rica with its’ many people and sustainable natural resources would be well placed to make considerable money in this industry.
Sociologically, it is important to remember that the country has to learn to walk before it can run. There is a lot of development that still needs to take place before developed nation wages can be paid. But, Costa Rica is well on its’ way and that is praiseworthy.
Come January, we will enjoy the sun in Costa Rica for a couple of months. Unfortunately, it will only be for a couple of months though.
Similar as in many of the same conviences…. same electrical, telephone, internet service, and TV. Many of the nice things you don’t mind having in such a wonderful new home.
“……before developed nation wages can be paid……” = another important issue. Now you can pay the $ 1,- an hour for the maid, the gardener etc. But will you be able to pay a full-time maid 10-15 years from now when you really need 24/7 help ? Probably not.
Option is: go to an old people’s home, home for the elderly. How many with a reasonable good quality (and cheap for the “poor-pensionados”) can you find here in Costa Rica ?
Ageing of the population is a problem for every nation. Let’s hope Costa Rica will not become the Poor-Pensionados-Paradise.
I posed the question of the impact of this proposed legislation on those who have already been granted residency to a knowledgeable attorney who practices residency law and got the following reply:
It will be unconstitutional to approve a law that changes for the worst the situation of people who acquired a residency status with a previous law
Anyway this is only a project and should be taken as such, the congress is the only place that you can put a banana in one end and get an apple in the other
I hope this’ll give some folks a little peace of mind.
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