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They are too backward for Democracy. They were advanced 40 something years ago, and now they are in the dark ages. Hey there is going to be tribal wars. We cannot stop that and to the strongest, the victors go the spoils. We should have never disbanned the government; we should have just put the next guy in control. And if that didn’t work we come back and do it again until it did work.
I’m no genius, but the next days after we occupied I said the in the long run all it will do is strengthen Iran. If me, a num nut x long hair leaping unknown could see it, why couldn’t leadership see it.
They could!! They saw it as an opening to fire up the military industrial complex. I hope Bush a Cheney choke on there money along with that a** CIA leader. Did you see his pretend indignant face. What a jerk. Lotus, we have made a mistake and Gas is going to 4 bucks and the worst president in our nation’s history loves it – he is completely unaffected.
The problem is, look who the stinking democrats have to offer. Hilary would be good only because of Bill. Clinton had humility. Hilary C doesn’t. I love Obama but does he have enough experience? Colin Powell is the guy, but where is he? He doesn’t want the job. Who would want the spotlight on every posterior pimple?
We are screwed because of the leadership vacuum. Blame the press as they stick there flash light up everybody’s rectum looking for dung. Would you want your rectum lit up?
That’s why we have no leaders.
I don’t want saints. I want leaders with faults. Anybody that is too goody goody two shoes I don’t trust. IE Catholic priests.
I want some one real to run our country, warts and all.
Lotus you are right to be outraged – all this Bush bungle is exactly that.
If stupid Gore would not have distant himself from one of the best presidents ever (balanced budget, excellent international statesman etc etc etc) he would have won.
Noooo he had to take the moral high ground and distant himself from Bill cause he got a little head on the side. Powerful men deserve a little head on the side. If they didn’t want some I would question their motives. At least he wasn’t a little coke head drunk have something to prove to Daddy like the idiot who is ruining our country. I’m way sick of it too.
If there was a draft there would be riots… you can bet on it. Bush is the presidential equivalent of J Edgar Hoover. A total pompous pig.
I thought the pre-war Iraqi mortality rates seemed low. That rate is how they figured 600,000 Iraqi deaths. There are also many other death counts figured by other independent groups that are much lower. The Iraqi government estimates 100,000-200,000 for example.
When you stated earlier 600,000 I had never heard that number. I read the study you posted and read other articles that contradict that study. 600,000 is shocking! I just want to know the real number. It seems to me that everyone who opposed this war wants to believe the worst statistics to support their view.
I don’t know you and wouldn’t question your patriotism. As far as being a robot or “droid” as you called it, I find the term hypocritical because you are parroting everyone who you think like. Nothing new or original.
To tell you the truth no I don’t see what you mean!
I do have to say that a person that is in the middle of the issue would have a higher rate of success of knowing the situation than some person that is thousands of miles away and hearing it second hand.Have you ever played the telephone game?
I’m with Diego on this one. After what we’ve done in Iraq, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Panama, Ecuador, Indonesia, etc etc, you’re right, I do not support the policies of the US. We are a bunch of bullies, and when I mentioned your comment, Scott, about the US supporting the peasants in El Salvador, my husband started laughing and wanted to know who had propagandized you. As for the current admin, Diego’s right — we’ve got some coke-snorting, alcohol-brain idiot in office who can’t even compose a decent sentence, not that I believe he ‘s really in charge anyway, he’s just a puppet for the military-industrial complex. Some of the things we’ve done in other countries make me totally ashamed of being an American, and that is my privilege. So what???
OK Maravilla, you can watch my back, but don’t start getting touchy feely with me. That “bumbaclot” remark got me thinking. I like your passion but remeber I’m giving you my back,,\ Charge!!!!
Lotus –
Whoa back girl – you need to live in the real world.
While I welcome your commenting on my post I believe your “Hitler” argument to be specious and one used by people who know little about anywhere but the USA.
Before Strossner in the chaos of ever changing governments there were NO services available, the majority of David’s employees could not even sign their names never the less read and write because they grew up in that era. Under Strossner, while basic, schools were available in most small towns, as were basic health care facilities. With stability people were able to open businesses and provide sufficient food to feed their families and their babies and small children were not dying of simple treatable diseases. People could live their lives without fear of retribution because yesterday they supported the in power government. In actuality Strossner was much appreciated by the majority of the population ( he probably didn’t need to control the elections, he just wanted to be sure!)
While one likes to believe that any one of us would have given up our lives to prevent a Hitler from comming to power, the reality is that when you fear for your life and the lives of your family the reality is that the great majority of people keep their heads down and try not to be noticed.
Reality isn’t perfection, wish it could be.
Don’t let the name fool you – I don’t think Lotus is a girl. But I’d change my handle if I was him – no offense meant Lo!
Lol…no offense taken Big Dog. Actually I have lived outside the U.S. I was married to a French Woman for 10 years. And as a fairly successful musician was able to travel to over 20 countries each year, over the course of 8 years, not including the travel I have done for leisure also I own property in Costa Rica.
Yes people get nervous when you mention Hitler…funny how Mao gets hung in the MOMA though…makes people less nervous I guess.
Fixed elections and dictators are just not my cup of tea I guess…Pura Vida.
Edited on May 03, 2007 09:22
“While I welcome your commenting on my post I believe your “Hitler” argument to be specious and one used by people who know little about anywhere but the USA.” Oh really Meine Freund…..
So Ruth this your idea of the lesser of two evils…Scott what I don’t rely on is some babble on a welovecostarica.com blog for my facts..go figure maybe i’m just crazy. A few tid bits about the General, it appears also the Hitler referance was accurate as Strossner welcomed many Nazis into the country including Dr.Mengele…Ruth where else have you lived? This from a NY Times article;
“But General Stroessner surprised the political pundits and held on through seven successive elections marked by rigged voting. In time he became the prototype for a new crop of South American dictators friendly to American interests. Backed by the United States, military rulers later seized power in Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay and Bolivia.
Security forces in these countries worked closely together, formalizing their cooperation in a joint intelligence plan called Operation Condor. Though Condor’s official goal was to target Marxist or terrorist threats to the dictatorships, in practice it served to uproot almost any political opposition or stirrings for democracy in its member nations.
Condor also coordinated the assassination of opposition figures abroad, and was believed responsible for the car-bomb killing of Orlando Letelier, a former Chilean ambassador to the United States, and Ronni Moffitt, his staff associate, on Washington’s Embassy Row in 1976; the death of Chile’s former defense minister, Carlos Prats, and his wife on a Buenos Aires street, and the attempted assassination of Senator Bernardo Leighton of Chile in Rome.
General Stroessner’s harshest repression occurred in the 1950’s and the 1970’s. Senator Carlos Levi Rufinelli, the leader of the opposition Liberal party, had been imprisoned 19 times and tortured six times by 1975.
“Most of the time I did not know what they wanted,” he told The New York Times that year. “They did not even know what they wanted. But when they put the needles under your fingernails, you tell them anything. You denounce everybody, and then they say: ‘See, you were lying to us all the time.’”
President Stroessner enjoyed all the trappings of dictatorship — guaranteed victories at election time, an absence of checks and balances, unremitting public adulation and regular kickbacks. Nonetheless, he bridled at being called a dictator.”
“Martín Almada, a schoolteacher imprisoned during the 1970’s as an “intellectual terrorist,” said that General Stroessner’s legacy was “terror and corruption.” Mr. Almada’s wife died at the age of 33, after, he said, security agents played her a tape of his screams under torture. In 1992, Mr. Almada discovered a trove of government documents that came to be known as the Archives of Terror, which detailed the political arrests of thousands of Paraguayans, and unveiled the workings of Operation Condor. “Fear became our second skin,” Mr. Almada remembered. “
“Formally, General Stroessner was a fugitive from justice, wanted by the Paraguayan courts for trial on charges of homicide. Despite an extradition treaty between Brazil and Paraguay, however, there were never any serious moves to bring the general to justice in his home country, where his cabinet members and associates remained the stewards of government.”
“Under General Stroessner, Paraguay’s security forces became so efficient at intimidating potential opposition figures that eventually fear itself — fear of arrest, torture, exile and murder — became one of his prime levers for staying in power. The country became a haven for Nazis on the run, with new passports and visas sold for a price. Among those it sheltered was Josef Mengele, the “Angel of Death” who selected victims for the gas chambers at Auschwitz and conducted medical experiments on humans. In addition, hundreds of political prisoners and their families were imprisoned at concentration camps like Emboscada, about 20 miles outside the capital city of Asunción, in the 1970s”
For the rest of the article just go to the NY Times…
Edited on May 03, 2007 10:40
Maravilla…I could not help but agree with you 100%…as I have said on this site “we are the American Government and we are here to help you……RUN RUN as fast as you can. Everyone knows that the current war is all making the U.S run financially. We have no leaders just a huge machine that can not and will not be stopped until we have another Tea Party. The general public is so sold on how great we are that they won’t do anything and the others can’t or won’t muster the troops to stop all this Greater than thou c***. I am on my way to C.R. in July and going to stay until I die. I have had it with the whole Government machine and the cost WE are paying to keep IT alive…and yes it will only get worse and worse
Terry From TexasLotus –
Aplogies for the mistake in reference to your sex. And we are to believe that a NY Times article is unbiased and gives the whole picture?
You made your point and I accept that much of what you quote is true, it is however interesting that in 15 years we never heard of people being taken off to concentration camps or being tortured or killed by the “security forces”. Must have had our heads in the sand the whole time.
Enough said on the subject.
Ruth
Ruth,
No problem how would you know if I was male/Female, lotus is just a referance to my admiration of Tibetan Buddhism. That’s why I posted my photo on the site. There were some funny comments on what other posters thought I looked like based on “my posts” lol…I hoped others would follow suit but not many takers. There is plenty of information on the General’s regime other than the NY times obit. I don’t know if your “heads were in the sand”, but the numerous reports I read on line don’t point to a very pretty picture.
Keith
The US has already sold it’s soul to China to finance Bush’s war. Can’t see what’s wrong with Chavez doing the same…what’s good for the goose and all that
The US has had it’s grubby little fingers, both for the good AND the bad, in just about every CA or SA country at one point or another. It just depends on your definition of good : )
Just remember the quote “We know Saddam has weapons of mass destruction – we have the receipts” Pretty much sums it up…
Trying for pura vida
Well you can tell you husband the person that propagandized me was a person that lived and breathed the issue. A person that didn’t just read or see it on TV and thought up crazy ideas, a person that knew and really cared about the issue because it impacted them and their daily lives.
Some people want to put on their rose collard glasses and read their collage books and belive they know the world, the rest of us live it in real time!!!!!
Clearly you don’t know the history of El Salvador other wise you would know that the death squads were not backed by the U.S. they were backed by the history of land owners that came from Europ that were eventully backed by communissm. The U.S. was forced to come to the aid when people around the world was asking why gringos would let this happen.
Just like what is happening today! Would you like us to help Darfur??
Why wont the hollywood types go to Saudi Arabia or any Islamic organization and protest there???How ever you can rest a sure that the U.S. will change thier postion because we are a society that lives by CNN or FOX or Survivor! We will forget or don’t understand why the real reasons 911 happend. We will bend to the pressure of the old hippy ways!!!!!
Please answer my question of what you think we should or should not do for Darfur!
We always back and train the death squads. What are you smoking, for god’s sake? And the only time we’ve ever backed the peasants is when they want to overthrow a democratically electred leader whose demise would somehow benefit our foreign policy. Here’s an interesting article. Of course, you won’t believe it because you are convinced YOU are right.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/deathsquads_ElSal.html
As for Darfur, there must be some benefit to the US to not stop the genocide. Rarely do we do anything that isn’t to our benefit, so if we are letting all those innocent people be slaughtered like pigs, we must have a hidden agenda.
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