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“You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend, is about the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it.” Dr. Adrian Rogers, American pastor, conservative, author, and a three-term president of the Southern Baptist Convention. Not a politician.
If, as you say,some of us are scurrying for the dark corners, it is because we have been working all our adult lives to get to where we are today, only to be slammed with the bill for the malfeasance of politicians and their evil twins: the bankers.
What in hell is a private citizen’s fair share of the willful destruction of our currency and a future in a socialized society that rewards idolatry and penalizes hard work and risk taking by the small percent of us still willing to undertake them?
If, in your own snarky way, you are suggesting that anyone who has achieved a level of comfort and success in the US is somehow guilty of oppressing the underclass, all I can assume is that you’d be more than happy to surrender your assets to the government in return for the promise of cradle-to-grave nanny care.
“The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.”
The above statement is so true. It is also true that the wealthy could not have their wealth without taking it first from somebody else…many somebody elses.I don’t know what people you refer to when you say “half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them.” No country on earth has half of its population idle while depending on the other half.
That was the case during official slavery.Today we have a different kind of slavery where the task masters control vast wealth and thereby control the lives of vast populations. I see you agree with this modern slavery. Nobody garners great wealth without utilizing and exploiting the labor of others. If you can think of one example where great wealth is achieved without the labor and contributions of others and without an infrastructure, let’s hear it.
If your garden produces more food than your neighbor’s due to your hard labor and his laziness, you should keep the excess produce. He deserves none. However, a few extra bushels of potatoes is not great wealth. And no government is coming after your few bushels of potatoes. They are focusing on the land owner who employs many people from the village to work his huge farm. He does not labor except in the management of accumulated wealth taken from the labor of others. Look to the Israelis and thier Kibbutz system. The workers own the farm and share the wealth among themselves.
Nobody gets rich working on a kibbutz. To get rich, you need to be in a position to skim small bits of excess value from the labor of many other people. You can earn a living working on your own to produce services or goods for others, but if you are getting rich making widgets or managing other peoples’ money, then you are relying heavily on the prionciple referred to abvove; skimming excess from others.
Edited on Apr 06, 2009 06:16
And on my “farm”, where I employ workers to raise my crops, and pay them a weekly wage that they are more than willing to accept (If they could make more, surely they’d move on to greener pastures than mine)how is it that I am abusing them for my own personal gain?
“The Haves and the Have-Nots are at odds these days. The governments, for the first time, are moving to the defense of the the Have-Nots and the infrastructure and now I read advice which recommends taking the money and running before you are forced to pay your fair shares for the salvaging of the economies from which the wealth was extracted.”
Sprirt…. What alternate reality are you living in? The Have-nots are on the unemployment line losing their homes… and government’s answer is to throw TRILLIONS of dollars at banks and other financial businesses that have stolen America’s future. Had Obama and the boys taken that money and used it to directly help those in need I don’t think most of us would have a problem. But then again the social spending that has taken the US to where it is today is a BIG part of the problem! And with the agenda we see in Washington these days… that will only get worse! If I’m not mistaken the US is looking at a $3.6 Trillion budget…. $1.2 Trillion of which is deficit spending…. and that’s apart from all the other “free” money they’re tossing around these days!
The “bailouts” are cop-outs, rewarding RICH folks (the HAVES) that got rich creating this mess… and now are not being held responsible for their own misdeeds! The “Stimulus” is nothing more than free drinks while the ship sinks. Keeping the folks calm while their future is determined in a backroom by the HAVES!
At some point the “answers” ($$$$) to this mess will have to be paid back! THAT’S where the real PAIN starts! But remember… the same folks making all these moves to fix the economy are the same HAVES that couldn’t even figure out (or chose not to) how to properly pay THEIR taxes! So who’s calling the kettle black my friend? Is this how good government levels the playing field?
Many of us see where this mess is going… and have known for some time… and much like the first folks on the lifeboats of a sinking ship, that see the warning signs, are prepared, gathered what is important… we’ll survive… those who refuse to acknowledge that something once so big and powerful can sink… or believe rescue is on the way and there’s no need to take action will slip below the waves to a dark and painful end.
I for one have always paid my fair share… and will continue to do so… but I refuse to pay for the binge of a crackhead out of control! I’m not rewarding poor choices and a lack of self discipline and determination! Man was created with free will… but there’s nothing that says I have to clean up the mess when he makes the same mistakes over and over again!
Edited on Apr 06, 2009 17:31
Imxploring:
“Costa Rica should be quite proud of being black listed and respecting the rights of folks to defend themselves from a US government gone on a crack binge! Because much like a crackhead… they’ll do anything to keep it going… no matter who they hurt or how many bad choices they make!”Sadly Imxploring, it’s probably only a matter of time until CR does comply with the OECD “rules” since this country is not a “tax haven”/offshore jurisdiction and, least on the surface, the government here has little to gain by not cooperating with OCED.
The flipside is that this, most likely, will have little effect even if they do comply. However, it is the thin edge of the wedge 🙂 Most recognized “tax havens” have already “given in” to the OECD over the last 10-15 years – and unless there are genuine crimes involved, eg drugs, money laudering, fraud, arms trafficking etc, this has not greatly impacted the offshore services industry in these countries. A fair number of these jurisdictions consider offshore services to be a relevant part of their economy and this is unlikely to change without a fight.
Panama, tho complying with OECD on the surface, is in a grey area. Pressure is still being placed on Panama by the OECD for further cooperation/disclosure. However, it’s asking a lot for Panama to just give up their offshore industry when this contributes to their economy – so expect them to hang out longer. Probably worth noting is that Panama does already have a MAT (Mutual Assistance Treaty) with the US.
The core criteria for qualification to legitimately use “tax havens” (tho there can be exceptions), is more a personal issue and depends on the domicile country. With the exception of Lybia, Saudi, one of the “stan” countries and the US, citizens of all other nations can simply export themselves “offshore” and are only liable for taxation/filings in their “offshore country” – assuming there is any taxation 🙂 Under that scenario, who cares if there is cooperation on tax matters? It is totally legal and no taxation is due on “global interests” – tho like all good things, when high tax regime countries are under pressure, they could resort to changing the goal posts and introduce laws which require filing/payment of taxation on a global basis. If there is a dollar to be gained, they will always try 🙂
Edited on Apr 06, 2009 09:31
Very good points! In my mind (and in my case) the whole tax haven issue is moot when it comes to Costa Rica. I’m not looking at CR as a place to set up hidden accounts or stashing ill gotten gains. I’m not looking to avoid taxes nor am I looking to hide “money” offshore. As such whether CR complies or not…. my plan remains the same. Hard assets are the way to go at the moment…
Money (currency) is a funny beast… and in the future I see the ability of governments to keep people believing that the paper they hold in their pockets as something of value will be seriously questioned. And that’s ignoring the hyperinflation we’ll see when, and if, this flood of “new” money comes into the economy or if it’s just sucked into the black hole the US government seems intent on filling.
Recent monetary moves by all the worlds governments has started this idea in motion. “Creating” money to bailout failing banks and industries only weakens the “value” of the very currency they’re using to achieve these goals. It also reminds us how easily it is “created” and how equally easy it can vanish. And let’s not forget that the holders of so many US dollars (China/Middle East) are already suffering at home and have expressed concerns about the “value” of their holdings that are dollar denominated. Should we see a major shift in that market (not only from the debt buyers angle)and folks see the dollars as not having the “value” that’s always been attached to it… we’re in for BIG trouble!
It’s not a pretty world out there right now as every level of government seeks “new” revenue to keep the party going. The last few years were an out of control house party… today it’s time for the hangover and the clean up! Some of us left the party early before it got crazy and turned in for a good nights sleep… prepared for the new day… and for the life of me I have no idea why some folks think we should be held responsible for the mess and the cost of the clean up!
Sorry Scott. You won’t get much support on that. I used to live in NY where they have a significant income tax as you know especially in NYC and the lawmakers there cannot even deliver a budget on time much less balanced. In FL where I live now although they have their misgivings in this all out bad economy they have proven to survive well without a state income tax. How about some fiscal responsibility?
Of course there are far fewer prisons in FL than in NY.
I was of course being sarcastic aenaze1 but you have brought up a brilliant and apparently novel idea that most states find impossible to implement = “fiscal responsibility”
Now what does that mean exactly? How does that work? Where can we see an example?
Scott Oliver – Founder
WeLoveCostaRica.comThere are no examples of fiscal responsibility in US government. Spending in virtually every state other than Alaska and possibly Texas has significantly exceeded the annual rate of inflation. What disturbs me the most is the attitude state and local governments have taken. The budget in WA has increased 10% per year. Two years ago we had a $4 billion surplus which was spent on additional programs, rather than being set aside for a rainy day. Now that the economy is in dire straights, the state is looking to maintain the status quo rather than slash to the levels of spending 4 years ago. So in their frantic quest to find more revenue, they are resorting to subversive taxation such as attempting to get the courts to overturn voter approved initiatives to limit tax increases (legsilation from the bench). In addition, they are also trying to overturn an initiative passed for external, independent audits of various departments for the first time eever in our state. They have already discovered massive waste. This is the government basically telling their citizens that your vote does mean squat and we know what is better for you than you do. It is an us against them scenario and if it persists, when do we hit the “tipping point”?
The entire mindset of government spending has to be changed from a spend it or loose it system to a system where saving is rewarded. This is no different than a business model where efficiency = more capital to invest in physical plant or higher profits.“fiscal responsibility”…. Easter Bunny… Tooth Fairy… Personal Responsibility… Nelly of Loch Ness… Big Foot… Tax Reform…
Just add it to the long list of things folks like to talk about that don’t exist!
Edited on Apr 08, 2009 15:16
GRB1063,
Are you suggesting that a government should be run like a business? Are you serious? Businesses are created for profit making. That is there ONLY reason for existence and no other. Governments, on the other hand, are created with a different goal which is to manage society.
When you confuse business and markets with governance, you get the current mess we are in, over and over. Fiscal responsibility is a great idea for business because it compliments the goal of business. But focusing on fiscal responsibility when passing out medicines in a epidemic or bandages after a battle is stupid.
Edited on Apr 07, 2009 11:09
No Sprite, it is not:
“Governments, on the other hand, are created with a different goal which is to manage society.”
It would be more accurate to say; It is the goal of a Marxist/Totalitarian governments to “manage society”. That is what the historical record confirms.
You also put your Marxist spin on the question of a business existing solely for profit. One has to ask why make money in the first place? The answer is obvious to most: to provide for ones present and future needs, wants and desires. Your class warfare rhetoric is such a broken record, and a pitiful attempt to use the current economic crisis, (created by collectivist policies, not free market) to attempt to portray collectivism as a superior system. Paradoxically the ultra rich that did not earn it, can anyone say Kennedy, are mostly ultra liberal collectivists. The fact is that the majority of American millionaires are first generation, meaning they earned it through providing goods and services that other people freely purchased. Wow, what an amazing concept.
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