- This topic has 1 reply, 12 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 5 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Is there anyone else out there who has the deed to their lot in Paragon Properties abandoned Playa Del Sol development? I am trying to find out how many deed holders there are and possibly unite everyone in this development to seek solutions to the lack of infrastructure, mainly roads at this point. Obviously if we can work together we stand a better chance of coming up with a solution to our problem than working individually. Please respond to this thread and we can go from there. Thanks.
[quote=”dgrende”]Is there anyone else out there who has the deed to their lot in Paragon Properties abandoned Playa Del Sol development? I am trying to find out how many deed holders there are and possibly unite everyone in this development to seek solutions to the lack of infrastructure, mainly roads at this point. Obviously if we can work together we stand a better chance of coming up with a solution to our problem than working individually. Please respond to this thread and we can go from there. Thanks.[/quote]
hmmm…intersting idea….wouldnt it better though to follow Maravilla’s advice and give up…do nothing…be negative and generally undermine any effort to find a solution?
Seriously though I think if the Paragon people could get rid of this problem they would, therefore the first step should be to simply ask for all the paperwork, all the Master Plan info, and ask them to hand over any outstanding title including the main holding company papers for each project. A liquidator needs to be appoointed to establish how much each person has paid and what is owing on each piece. If a firm like Deloitte (my accountants) were overseeing everything, if the title were secured and if a leading construction firm were contracted to do the work, who would not, having already invested some money, proceed to pay up what remains in order to finish the project? In addition, why would the people who have paid in full not add a few thousand to have this done – I think they would.
Get the lawyers in Miami to make a deal to take control of everything – I am not saying drop the case against them simply force this issue first. If they dont respond surely any court would rule agaisnt them in their abscence. Thereafter claimaints prove their payments made to date and land is assigned. Unless they have sold more land than there is available (this would be blatant fraud and I doubt they made this mistake, although it could be) this should go smoothly.
I’m a fairly optimistic person, but simon you give a whole new meaning to the word. I guess it’s my 21 years working in real estate in Manhattan that causes me to scratch my head….
Organizing hundreds of people through out the world to come together and complete these projects is in my opinion very unrealistic. I know developers in Costa Rica, just managing a small project and getting through the bureaucratic web of permitting is a nightmare when you are on the up and up and well funded.
I could see a new entity stepping in, either any lenders involved or if via bankruptcy an experienced group of investors/developers buying whats left through a “fire sale” and start things up again. Again the main problem will be navigating the CR bureaucratic system and most likely by the time they get this all figured out you’ll long be retired.:(
Considering that according to Paragon they have sold hundreds of parcels of land, it’s strange we only see a handful of people on here complaining? My guess is that these were not very sophisticated well funded buyers.They scraped together the initial $5000 to put down and believed the pitch it would be worth twice what they paid in 5 years and they could subdivide their lot, sell half and pay off their total note. They were scammed. I had seen these Paragon pitches for years but felt pretty certain this was a questionable operation. Just a quick look at all their silly animated presentations, maps and gates that lead no where was enough to keep me away. That said at one point when Gale was coming on here all the time, I thought why wouldn’t they build out, they had millions of dollars from sales and labor is the cheapest part of the equation down there.
“Get the lawyers in Miami to make a deal to take control of everything – I am not saying drop the case against them simply force this issue first. If they dont respond surely any court would rule agaisnt them in their abscence. Thereafter claimaints prove their payments made to date and land is assigned. Unless they have sold more land than there is available (this would be blatant fraud and I doubt they made this mistake, although it could be) this should go smoothly.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if things worked so “smoothly” in Costa Rica…
Best of luck to all of you either way you proceed!
[quote=”*Lotus”]I’m a fairly optimistic person, but simon you give a whole new meaning to the word. I guess it’s my 21 years working in real estate in Manhattan that causes me to scratch my head….
Organizing hundreds of people through out the world to come together and complete these projects is in my opinion very unrealistic. I know developers in Costa Rica, just managing a small project and getting through the bureaucratic web of permitting is a nightmare when you are on the up and up and well funded.
I could see a new entity stepping in, either any lenders involved or if via bankruptcy an experienced group of investors/developers buying whats left through a “fire sale” and start things up again. Again the main problem will be navigating the CR bureaucratic system and most likely by the time they get this all figured out you’ll long be retired.:(
Considering that according to Paragon they have sold hundreds of parcels of land, it’s strange we only see a handful of people on here complaining? My guess is that these were not very sophisticated well funded buyers.They scraped together the initial $5000 to put down and believed the pitch it would be worth twice what they paid in 5 years and they could subdivide their lot, sell half and pay off their total note. They were scammed. I had seen these Paragon pitches for years but felt pretty certain this was a questionable operation. Just a quick look at all their silly animated presentations, maps and gates that lead no where was enough to keep me away. That said at one point when Gale was coming on here all the time, I thought why wouldn’t they build out, they had millions of dollars from sales and labor is the cheapest part of the equation down there.
“Get the lawyers in Miami to make a deal to take control of everything – I am not saying drop the case against them simply force this issue first. If they dont respond surely any court would rule agaisnt them in their abscence. Thereafter claimaints prove their payments made to date and land is assigned. Unless they have sold more land than there is available (this would be blatant fraud and I doubt they made this mistake, although it could be) this should go smoothly.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if things worked so “smoothly” in Costa Rica…
Best of luck to all of you either way you proceed![/quote]
Your last two lines with their facetcious tone and the sarcastic exclamation mark say more about you than I could. Paragon investors are advised to treat Lotus’s post with the contempt it deserves.
I wrote a lengthy response to this which unfortunately got wiped out due to the system in use in this forum but I will try to write again when I have time.
In the meantime do not allow the comments of someone without experience in this matter to stop you from trying to salvage this situation.
I notice that Lotus says [i]”…it’s strange we only see a handful of people on here complaining”?[/i]
What percentage of ex-pats living here, [b]*Lotus[/b], do you think read and participate in this forum?
There are ‘regulars’ of which I am one, but many just ask their questions and are never heard from again.
Having lost funds in other projects here, I wish those of you who have invested, the best of luck in getting something …I don’t know *Lotus well but, certainly well enough to say that he is not being at all facetious and probably sincerely wishes these people well.
Scott
Simon doesn’t like any one to express an opinion other than his own. I am skeptical of your solution to the “Paragon” problem and as others have pointed out your defense of them on many other threads. I think they stink. Based on what I know about Costa Rica( I am a property owner there) and 20+ years in Real Estate, I am doubtful anyone can clean up the Paragon mess and make it whole. That’s just my opinion and last time I checked I’m entitled to one. Time will tell…
Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. Life is short, consider it a lesson learned. You will have to assess the situation yourself and decide if it is worth your time and money to pursue this. Either way I would not decide my position based on information provided on a public web forum.
Scott thank you, the expression of course is sincere.
finca: I thought via a Google search more buyers would have discovered this site as there has been so much Paragon stuff posted here.
some people don’t google anything, and then there are those victims who were threatened with libel suits if they said one word against paragon; how many of those people are there? i still find it hard to believe that anyone would give those people money.
[quote=”*Lotus”]Simon doesn’t like any one to express an opinion other than his own. I am skeptical of your solution to the “Paragon” problem and as others have pointed out your defense of them on many other threads. I think they stink. Based on what I know about Costa Rica( I am a property owner there) and 20+ years in Real Estate, I am doubtful anyone can clean up the Paragon mess and make it whole. That’s just my opinion and last time I checked I’m entitled to one. Time will tell…
Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. Life is short, consider it a lesson learned. You will have to assess the situation yourself and decide if it is worth your time and money to pursue this. Either way I would not decide my position based on information provided on a public web forum.
Scott thank you, the expression of course is sincere.
finca: I thought via a Google search more buyers would have discovered this site as there has been so much Paragon stuff posted here.[/quote]
Ahh, how touching, Scott came to your aid. How, in the same post where an investor is reaching out to others, could the line, “if only things worked so smoothly in Costa Rica” be considered a sincere comment? Contrary to your assertion that I don’t like anyone having an opinion but my own, I only get annoyed when someone assumes to know what they couldnt possibly know…and you do it constantly.
[quote=”maravilla”]some people don’t google anything, and then there are those victims who were threatened with libel suits if they said one word against paragon; how many of those people are there? i still find it hard to believe that anyone would give those people money.[/quote]
Ahh, more helpful advice for the gentleman who started this post…thanks again maravilla.
[quote=”*Lotus”]I’m a fairly optimistic person, but simon you give a whole new meaning to the word. I guess it’s my 21 years working in real estate in Manhattan that causes me to scratch my head….
Organizing hundreds of people through out the world to come together and complete these projects is in my opinion very unrealistic. I know developers in Costa Rica, just managing a small project and getting through the bureaucratic web of permitting is a nightmare when you are on the up and up and well funded.
I could see a new entity stepping in, either any lenders involved or if via bankruptcy an experienced group of investors/developers buying whats left through a “fire sale” and start things up again. Again the main problem will be navigating the CR bureaucratic system and most likely by the time they get this all figured out you’ll long be retired.:(
Considering that according to Paragon they have sold hundreds of parcels of land, it’s strange we only see a handful of people on here complaining? My guess is that these were not very sophisticated well funded buyers.They scraped together the initial $5000 to put down and believed the pitch it would be worth twice what they paid in 5 years and they could subdivide their lot, sell half and pay off their total note. They were scammed. I had seen these Paragon pitches for years but felt pretty certain this was a questionable operation. Just a quick look at all their silly animated presentations, maps and gates that lead no where was enough to keep me away. That said at one point when Gale was coming on here all the time, I thought why wouldn’t they build out, they had millions of dollars from sales and labor is the cheapest part of the equation down there.
“Get the lawyers in Miami to make a deal to take control of everything – I am not saying drop the case against them simply force this issue first. If they dont respond surely any court would rule agaisnt them in their abscence. Thereafter claimaints prove their payments made to date and land is assigned. Unless they have sold more land than there is available (this would be blatant fraud and I doubt they made this mistake, although it could be) this should go smoothly.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if things worked so “smoothly” in Costa Rica…
Best of luck to all of you either way you proceed![/quote]
Well that’s it folks, Lotus has spoken and he seems to know everything there is to know. He tells us what a nightmare it is to get the permits without knowing whether they are already in place for these projects! Then he tells us that he can see this working if a new developer comes in and buys each project at a firesale price. So Lotus’s best idea is that you all sell to some wealthy group of speculators for 10 cents on the dollar! If there any any takers for this one please let us know…!! (or did you mean somethig else?)
Lotus, in reading your tag I have to ask, when you breathe in, exactly what are you inhaling?
[quote=”*Lotus”]Simon doesn’t like any one to express an opinion other than his own. I am skeptical of your solution to the “Paragon” problem and as others have pointed out your defense of them on many other threads. I think they stink. Based on what I know about Costa Rica( I am a property owner there) and 20+ years in Real Estate, I am doubtful anyone can clean up the Paragon mess and make it whole. That’s just my opinion and last time I checked I’m entitled to one. Time will tell…
Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. Life is short, consider it a lesson learned. You will have to assess the situation yourself and decide if it is worth your time and money to pursue this. Either way I would not decide my position based on information provided on a public web forum.
Scott thank you, the expression of course is sincere.
finca: I thought via a Google search more buyers would have discovered this site as there has been so much Paragon stuff posted here.[/quote]
You know I really take exception to your defeatist attitude. You have no development experience in CR, no experience of raising capital internationally, liquidation experience, tunraround experience, no coordination experience of dealing wiht international investors using Trust companies and Trasnfer agents, and have no first hand experience of the CR legal system, (oh please correct me if I am wrong) yet you presume to tell these people it’s not going to work.
I went through the Master Plan process and it was satisfactorily completed at the height of the bubble in the busy Santa Cruz office in one year for a cost of a little over $100,000.
This is fascinating. For all these years I was thinking that you needed more than one person to enjoy a discussion but simondg has shown me a new way where you can discuss stuff all by yourself.
simondg…
Take a step back from your situation a moment… perhaps you might not like what Lotus is saying… and he and I haven’t always agreed in the past. But as much as you (and countless others involved in Paragon investments) might want to find a solution I too think it’s a bit bigger than all of us.
This scam…. yes let’s call it what it was… will be winding it’s way through the CR and US courts for a decade… and even then there will be legal challenges that will pop up from the players that will make it drag on longer. And that’s got to run it’s course before you can even think about now getting folks together, come to agreement and finance the cost to finish the infrastructure to add any real value to these developments. And where might the money come from to do that? If this was an issue with limited players you might have a better chance… but there are a few thousand… not only the poor folks that invested… but banks… vendors… workers… contractors… and government agencies!
I’m one who likes the challenge of bringing people together and resolving issues others thought were unsolvable, but this mess would require too much time, money, and resolve from too many people with a multitude of angles that it’s better you look at it as a lesson learned.
I do however wish you luck should you’re out of body experience not deter you from chasing this endeavor!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
