Real Estate downturn?

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  • #181400
    tboneatlanta
    Member

    I may be off-topic in saying this, but…
    Costa Rica doesn’t have a military and doesn’t make political enemies.
    That’s a *huge* point to consider when talking about the safety of your investments in CR, real estate or otherwise…
    Decades-long war and the threat of terrorism is a factor many people aren’t prepared to live with, and once Americans and western Europeans start to fully come to terms with that, Costa Rica is going to look brighter and brighter for a lot of people.

    #181401
    GringoTico
    Member

    T-Bone:

    Sadly, making war and political enemies seems to have paid off handsomely for people investing in the U.S. and Western Europe since the end of WWII. In contrast, peace-loving Costa Rica has only recently emerged out of the dead asset doldrums, 59 years after abolishing the army.

    While its political stability is certainly a factor in the recent investment boom, the main engine powering this economic trend is the aging Gringo Boomers and their U.S. incubated nest eggs.

    Furthermore, as “Fortress America” consolidates, one could argue that Americans abroad may become much more likely targets.

    I don’t particularly subscribe to this point of view, but it’s possible. Personally, I feel equally “safe” about my investments in both countries. However, it has been my experience that U.S. assets are much more liquid (much larger market of buyers = faster turnover), and IN GENERAL (capitalized to head-off posts citing specific instances to the contrary from recent Gold Coast investors) appreciate faster and more steadily. Hence the long-standing global dominance of the U.S. in attracting foreign investment.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think peace is good for business, but it’s a long-term strategy in a short-term thinking world. For all I know, maybe you’re right. After all, 59 years is definitely long-term.

    However, it would be wise to remember that we live in an ever-increasingly integrated world economy, where a blip in China creates a small tsunami that circles our little orb in as long as it takes for the sun to rise. The fact is that Costa Rica is deeply and inextricably dependant upon the U.S. economy, so we’re all going down together if the hole in the bottom of the boat gets any bigger.

    #181402
    Alfred
    Member

    T-Bone and GT, Maybe I’m the only one thinking like this, but, doesn’t not having a defensive force in place leave a country exposed to things like, invasions from foreign powers? While I totally agree with Costa Rica’s reasons for not having a standing army, I would however feel it a little unnerving should neighbors to the North or south do a little saber rattling. Possibly this is only a paranoid feeling, having lived my life in the post WWII era in the USA.
    Costa Rica enjoys a stable government, basically stable economy and a standard of living that would affirm their choices have for the most part, worked. I’m not implying a nonmilitary country is bad. Just with the world in a state such as it is, real or perceived, I feel a trifle uncomfortable not having a military presence. Any thoughts?

    #181403
    tboneatlanta
    Member

    good points gringotico. I know this thread isn’t about politics, and I’m not really sure how the Costa Rican govt feels about the private ownership of guns, but if you look at the history of WW2, the Swiss were right in the middle of the bloodiest neighborhood in the world , and their neutrality ensured that, for the most part, the Swiss made it through without a scratch. The key was, the Swiss strongly support the private ownership of firearms, and had either side tried to invade Switzerland, the casualty rate would have been tremendous. I would hope the Costa Rican govt. has looked hard at Switzerland’s outlook on self defense and somewhat copied their system.
    The US, Venezuela, the Russians, Martians, whoever– as powerful as they are militarily, no conventional standing army can fight, occupy and win a guerilla war. You can’t shoot what you can’t see. Give everybody in Costa Rica a rifle and the training how to properly use it, and you’re in the safest place on earth.

    #181404
    Alfred
    Member

    Tbone, You bring up a very good point. If I am correct in what I remember about Switzerland, it was mandatory to have a fully automatic firearm in one’s home. I assume that was for the head of household and also they may have had some training.
    In Costa Rica from what I know, you are able to have a pistol even if you are not a citizen. I believe the requirement is residency and passing a proficiency test and a psychological evaluation. This should make for a safer country by the standards you have described above. But, as you know, in the US it is becoming more difficult to own a handgun and longarms are coming under ever increasing restrictions.
    I don’t know how we got from “real estate downturn” to this subject, but it makes for interesting conversation.

    #181405
    GringoTico
    Member

    Well, you’re both at least half right. Indeed Costa Rica has been invaded several times since its independence from Spain in 1821.

    In 1856, after taking Nicaragua, William Walker marched his band of mercenaries into Guanacaste with the ambition of extending the U.S. Confederacy to the south, or possibly making himself emperor of Central America, only to be beaten back by ordinary farmers who had taken up arms. The battle that ousted him from the country was at La Casona in Santa Rosa National Park, and a little boy names Juan Santamaría later laid flames to his troop’s bunker in Rivas Nicaragua, getting killed in the act and sealing his fate as Costa Rica’s national hero.

    After Pepe Figueres’ troops beat the Calderonistas at the conclusion of civil war in 1948, he abolished the army. During the next few years the exiled Calderon, with the backing of Nicaragua, invaded twice. Once again civilians took up arms and drove him out. In the end Nicaragua apologized by gifting the big ugly cement gazebo in the middle of the Central Plaza in San Jose across from the Basilica.

    In the middle of the Rotunda de Zapote you can see beautiful monument of three John Doe farmers, in recognition of the ordinary Tico in the country’s defence.

    The only time the peasantry couldn’t eject the invader was in 1919 when the U.S. Marines landed to protect American interests after the fall of the dictator Tinoco. They remained there until 1920 when a democratic election was successfully held (those were the days…when men were men and sheep were nervous).

    No invasionary force has ever come through Panama, which is one of the reasons there’s still no road that goes through to South America, nor much political will to build one either.

    As a result of all this, guns are legal in Costa Rica, but must be registered. I know plenty of Ticos who carry a gun in their glove compartment.

    I once saw an interview of Pepe Figueres (his wife was a Gringa) where the interviewer asked him why he abolished the army. His first reply was “Why not?”. The interviewer pressed the point, asking if he supported the U.S. military in the war with Germany. He said “Of course. But the army is like the doctor. You get sick, you call the doctor. But you don’t want him living with you!”

    The key point here is that Don Pepe openly depended on the U.S. to come to his aid should another invader arise. The fact that his own civilian countrymen had already repelled previous invaders, and that the U.S. had also previously invaded and then departed in a benevolent fashion, certainly made him comfortable in his decision.

    Since then I think successive governments also had, and still have, faith that the U.S. would come to their aid in the case of an invasion. The resulting lack of military expenditures has since been touted as the reason behind Costa Rica’s renowned educational system and high literacy rates, a much better investment than guns and bullets, if you have a big brother to defend you.

    However, while Costa Rica is known as the Switzerland of Central America, they have been far from neutral. They immediately sided with the US during WWI, and have generally been a thorn in the side of Fidel Castro even though they maintained diplomatic relations. Even now Oscar Arias has some choice words for Hugo Chaves and Evo Morales who are nationalizing industries in Venezuela and Bolivia.

    Furthermore, Costa Rica is somewhat more isolated than Switzerland, and is certainly not in any way a cultural or military crossroad. Actually, the “Rich Coast”, like Iceland and Greenland, are misnomers. Like Australia, it was the dregs of European society that ended up there. There are few exploitable natural resources, no harbors at all on the Atlantic coast, and very little arable land for mechanized farming. Their most treasured possession is democracy, which is of course invasion proof.

    While the exact border with Nicaragua is contested, (and Nicas do get very testy on the issue, especially when things are going poorly in Managua), unlike Eastern Europe and ex republics of the USSR, the lines drawn in the Americas are generally accepted, and there’s little threat of war between countries. It’s the internal strife that afflicts America.

    T-Bone also rightly points out that Costa Rica threatens no one, and makes no enemies in return. On the other hand, a threatening Costa Rica is kind of like a semi truck driver, or jumbo shrimp. Definitely not something to take seriously.

    Finally, in his previous presidency, Arias helped influenced Panama to abolish their military as well. As such, it’s just the Nicaraguan they have to worry about, and they’ve been fighting among themselves since their independence. Nicaraguan are conquering Costa Rica today anyway simply by sheer emigration, just as Mexicans are doing in the U.S.

    Regarding the safest place on earth, I’m afraid Cuba is right up there. Firearms are illegal, and there’s at least one communist party member on each and every block for the entire length and breadth of the island making sure all the neighbors are behaving. I was there in the 70’s, and I have to say that I’ve never felt safer, even alone, on the street, in the dark, in a foreign city. Quite a high price to pay though.

    Sorry for droning on here. Just one last morsel of food for thought.

    Would you feel safer:

    1. With a big bruiser of a brother defending you from those who would do you harm;

    or

    2. On your own with no one threatening at all?

    Ya’ know, sometimes those big brothers can turn on you.

    Oh yeah, and I agree with the whole real estate downturn thing…

    #181406
    Alfred
    Member

    GringoTico, You are as eloquent and informative as ever. I truly enjoy your comments, and actually look forward to you joining in a discussion. No, I’m not being patronizing, I just love reasoned and informative posts.
    You are right, about Cuba being one of the safest places on the planet. I’ve read that numerous times, and heard of many foreigners and Cubans saying the same thing. You are also correct in that it comes at a high cost … to civil liberties.
    While in Costa Rica this past summer, I asked our driver about what would happen if CR was invaded by a foreign power. He said, they fully expect the US to come to their aid. This is why they are comfortable not having an Army. The US and CR have had a long standing friendship, as evidenced by the US Coast Guard acting in concert with the Ticos on drug interdiction. I too, believe the US would be there to assist the Ticos, should the need ever arise.
    The one thing I was not aware of, and was surprised to find out, was that the dregs of Europe settled in Costa Rica. Unlike Australia, which was a penal colony, I thought CR was settled by the more “upper class” Spaniards looking to increase their holdings and income. They were trying to enslave the natives to do the farming and building of cities. Finding not much of an indigenous population, and little money coming from Spain because of the lack of gold to be found in CR, they took to farming themselves and settled the country. It could very well be these were the dregs of Europe. At least their original intentions and actions may have lead to this conclusion. The history, in books I have read, seemed to paint a more noble image of the original Spanish Conquistador inhabitants of Costa Rica.

    I guess we can now get back to “Real estate downturn.”

    #181407
    GringoTico
    Member

    I’m blushing.

    Costa Rica wasn’t exactly the penal colony that Australia was, but those who had the ear of the Spanish crown received position and power in Mexico or Peru, where the natural resources were in abundance(i.e. gold and Indian slaves). The runner-ups got Guatemala, or other secondary colonial administrative centers in North and South America. Costa Rica, known then as “Varagua”, was really in the hinterlands, several days ride beyond the boondocks. Once they figured out there was no gold to be had, there weren’t a whole lot of takers.

    I too enjoy the thoughtful and respectful back and forth to be found in this forum. Perhaps it’s because the kind of people who love Costa Rica, with all its strange and quirky ways, are naturally more tolerant and accepting of other people’s diverse attitudes, mindful that there is usually more than one right way of doing things, and cognizant that what some people refer to as “facts” are many times merely words used to describe things we don’t understand, or wish to simplify so our puny little brains don’t blow up and spatter all over the walls.

    What is a “continent” anyway, why does mass attract, and what is my wife so mad at me about now?

    Ah, the wonders of the universe!

    Pure life my friend.

    #181408
    Alfred
    Member

    GringoTico, I truly enjoy reading your complete and insightful answers to questions. If you have stopped blushing, please let me know, have you written any books? If so what are the titles? If you haven’t authored any, may I suggest you start…Immediately!!
    I am in need of literature that is able to ground my ever wandering mind.
    On this board, in its calmer moments, there is much knowledge to be gained about Costa Rica, human nature and people’s hopes and dreams. We all share the love of a country, that in many ways is different from the land of our birth. This is probably what attracts us so much. We long for a paradise we might not be able to attain in our native countries, and find something here that offers promise.
    For myself, I have found my ability for being tolerant and accepting of other peoples diverse attitudes, as well as realizing there is more than one “right” way to do things, has grown since visiting Costa Rica and participating in this forum. Sometimes I still get carried away, but I’m learning to live the “pure life.”

    Thanks for being the “Professor” of WLCR.

    Pura Vida tambien mi amigo

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