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I think most of the wagering came from the US to begin with. If the source of income gets turned off, so goes the business. I have sympathy for the Tico’s who lost jobs at high wages. But if taking bets illegally from US gamblers is what put them out, then there is not much you can say. I did not hear of the US government coming down and closing the offices. It’s obvious they set up an offshore establishment to circumvent US law. They had to know most of the wagering was coming from up north where wealthier people will have access to the Internet and the financial means to use it. The responsibility rests with the businesses also for their practices, not soley on the US government. This is a very touchy subject. As I have read the passionate responses from everyone, I can see emotions have run high. Some of the points are valid and some quite frankly are off the cuff remarks. I’m not totally familiar with all the facts on this situation. I think to make a rational comment on this whole affair, we have to sit back and wait to see what all the facts tell us. Most of you know how I feel on some subjects posted here, and my thinking is, there will be a lot of blame to go around when this thing is fully investigated.
Sitting here and watched this enough.I am a veteran who has been involved with s*** that you can only imagine. I do not see no see no hate or anger here from bradbard. I read many of his listings here over the last year or whatever there called in this discussion forum and he shoots straight from the hip and always backs his information up with facts. I do not know if he is a vet but Bradbard gets to the point and he may be ‘controversial’ but he is obviously not stupid and seems like he wants to debate the facts when it comes to jobs lost in Costa Rica and the taxes that the US Department of Justice says that it wants. The problem with your attitude VegasKnite is that you do not like to be criticized even when other folks show you that you are wrong and obviously know diddlysquat about what our special forces are doing all over the world and we must I repeat must criticize what is going on because the things we doing in so many places is bad. You moan about bashing the USA (bradbard and now me for sure) and do not see that we are all standing stand at the edge of a very tall cliff, a cliff we have never, ever stood before Jesus walked this earth. As you sit here moaning our armed forces have nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers positioned off the coast of Iran like Iraq has never attacked the USA and we have been threatening to use nuclear weapons against this country and we wonder why the people in the Middle East are p***** at us? We should be bashing the US more not less we have to start taking responsibility for what our government is doing in the name of democracy, freedom or whatever the lie of the day is. This is not about having enough gas for your SUV we are now talking about whether our kids will even have a life to live.You are not an exception, the government does not give a s*** about you. I spent over 20 years in the armed forces and I am mad as hell that a******* like Bush and Cheney who were too COWARD to do the right thing for our country have sent so many of our soldiers to die and do not get me started about health benefits for veterans and the horrific problems we are seeing with the affects of the DU rounds those boys have been using you have no idea. So remembering those facts are you saying VegasKnite that the US Department of Justice website and the indictment details are not correct? That they don’t want those taxes on that $3.3 billion? By the way the phrase drug lords does not means people selling Viagra on the internet it normally refers to people pushing cocaine and heroin so that was an easy thing for someone to misunderstand in your posting.
Thank you for your service to our country and to me. I am a Vet and right now my son is active duty Marine on a MEU. So I have every right to have my own feelings. But with that said I know our country’s foreign policy is incorrect many times as far as bradbard goes if you have read all these postings as you said you did I have agreed with him on many things I disagree with name calling that is his stupid act. As far as the issue goes I would suggest that you understand gaming is a highly regulated industry in the US for many reasons mainly because of the money it generates and the tax dollars it brings in. As such there are many laws regarding gaming in the US and in the individual states. Those laws have been broken by the CR books and that’s why they were arrested in the US and prosecuted along with their assets held. Not to steal CR jobs or to hurt Costa Rica as a nation or it’s people. I don’t disagree that US policy have caused people to suffer all over the world. I disagree with our policy towards Cuba as an example it makes no sense to me to not have open trade with them. So before you think you have been on a tour inside my head and know my feelings I suggest that you ask specific questions. When I refer to the haters on here there are many who condem the US at every turn whether fact or fiction I don’t defend her unconditionally in these arguments I defend the lies or misinformation when it is spewed and I feel like getting involved. I have sat quietly by and allowed a lot of these so called expats who many of them are still living in the US and have never even left defame the US with conspiricy theory crap and I am tired of it. Read every post of mine that I wrote and see if I am not telling you the absolute truth. Whether it is illegal drugs or illegal prescription drugs or illegal anything isn’t at issue the fact is the laws had been written and they were broken by CR sports book operators and they have been enforced. If you as an American citizen don’t like the law use your vote to change it but don’t condone it being broken. Either you don’t know the history of gaming such as the Mob took gaming off shore in the 40s to Cuba and in todays times they have moved gaming operations off shore to avoid US laws and the US has reacted with new laws. They don’t prohibit or discourage gaming in these countries they allow US citizens to visit and gamble in these places they just enforce the laws on the books prohibating internet gaming out side of the state in which it is legal. Where it is legal in the US they still cannot take a bet from outside of that state. I know this may seem like a complicated issue but it’s very straight forward and laws were broken and people were arrested. Others have chosen not to try to beat the system by continuing to break US laws and closed up their off shore operations others haven’t. If they can sustain the cost of being in business without breaking the law they would keep their doors open.
Edited on Jan 30, 2007 22:29
Edited on Jan 30, 2007 22:32
ReconAlpha: I have something else to add in response to your post. You stated we have to bash the US more now. I question what you stated, if you are so unhappy with this government and it’s policies why aren’t you voting for change, why aren’t you marching on Washington with your claims why are you on a website about Costa Rica complaining about the Country you say you fought for. I don’t do those things; I vote I write my congress and senators I express what I agree with and disagree with. I don’t blanketly critisize the USA on a website about another country one that has been created to teach about this foreign country. When you write that you have done all this stuff that you can’t speak of yet you speak of it. I almost just wrote more than I wish to share on here and I erased it. You can’t preach to me about war I am a combat veteran not just 1 tour and I have seen and done pleanty yet you won’t read it here and even if you were my friend you wouldn’t hear about it because I don’t talk about it. Again I appreciate that you served our great nation.
Interesting,
In this case the money was made on the internet, maybe the person that was beting should pay the taxes and not the bookies! As I stated before the internet was not intended for the use of making taxes for the U.S. Many people purchase stuff all the time on the internet from other countries and don’t pay taxes to Uncle Sam.
This is a problem that will faceing the up and coming Ecommerce and hopefuly the taxation of the U.S. goverment will stop on the net.
Maybe Scott can enlighten us with his thoughts on this subjet?
As well thanks for everyone that has served in the armed service, I am still currently serving in the service and have been for 20 years and will probley serve another 4 years. We all have different opinions of polotics and that is ok. How ever the topic is gambeling and the sportsbooks in Costa Rica!
I am only trying to center in on the topic.
If vegas is right than anywhere in the world if a vender sells or provides service to a individual in the United States on the internet they must pay taxes! This is not true!
If a person buys a pair of shoes from a vender online that is located in Costa Rica that vender must pay income taxes to the U.S. goverment?
When the bookies where located in Costa Rica and the gamblers were in the United States, and the gamblers were the ones that pushed the send button maybe they should have gone to jail!What about the gingos that go to Costa Rica, Germany or anywhere else in the world for the sextrade. In the U.S. that is illegal why cant the gringos be put in jail?
Edited on Jan 31, 2007 17:51
Edited on Jan 31, 2007 17:55
Again scottbenson your statement is incorrect. Prostitution is legal in the US in NYE County NEVADA. Check your facts before you make comparasions. Also I never mentioned that taxes are the issue as you keep saying I stated that the law states that no one may accept wagering outside of a state in which it is legal. That’s why it’s OK for Americans to go to Costa Rica and wager in Casinos there or to place sports wagers on the internet there while they are there and no taxes are due nor have any laws been broken. The US government isn’t taxing the sport books in CR. They aren’t saying don’t do business anywhere it is legal they are saying don’t break our laws or we will use what ever means we can to stop it and bring you to justice. Read this a few times and my other posts a few times and maybe then you will see what I am saying and how it is different than what yu are saying I am saying. I understand this issue may be very personal or important to you I respect that scottbenson all I am asking is that you get the facts straight. Get them straight in your understanding and than you may even agree or you may not and we will agree to disagree. I agree with you that the internet should be tax free yet it isn’t in some cases like when the purchase and sale are in the same State sales tax is due but also the companies and individuals are responsible for income taxes on all earnings in their prospective countries in most countries. That covers the tax issues the other issue is about breaking laws where you sell your services or goods. You may not sell firearms or other identified weapons via the internet in places they are illegal. This is all the same as I have said before and I am repeating myself, so maybe you are right if Scott Oliver will chime in and explain what I am saying and what you are saying and how they differ.
After reading every post in this thread I have a question: can anyone tell me of a Sportsbook that has been shut down or one that the owners have been arrested? If gambling is legal in CR, and it is, then the only people that should be involved are the US citizens who are not paying taxes on their winnings.
From what I have read, the issue with the companies that have shut down is that they were advertising illegally on US soil, and in some cases operating phone centers on US soil. Obvioulsy they can be prosecuted for that in the US. Whether one agress it is right or not is another argument all together. Also the issue of the us citizens not claiming their winnings on their taxes is a seperate issue from the sports centers themselves. Do a search of http://www.amcostarica.com, there are several articles about the two I know of that have been shut down. I can’t think of their names off the top of my head right now, but it is at least two.
Agreed 100% Marcia who said “If gambling is legal in CR, and it is, then the only people that should be involved are the US citizens who are not paying taxes on their winnings.”
Here is another analogy for you:
An American company with sales of over one billion dollars for 2006 listed on the New York Stock Exchange is operating in Costa Rica involved in the production of wines and also whisky.
This business is 100% legal in Costa Rica and also in America but, 80% of their whisky customers were in Great Britain where the sale of wine by direct mail is legal but, where the sale of whisky is not legal.
One day when the American Chief Executive Officer of this New York Stock Exchange company is flying into London, he is arrested and charged with a variety of very serious offences which forces the company to stop all operations and lay off more than two thousand staff in Costa Rica and because the company was forced to stop doing business with 80% of their customers, the company is then delisted from the New York Stock Exchange.
Then to add insult to injury, after the CEO was arrested doing his job, the company “terminated the contract” of “its chief executive due to his continued detention by US officials.”
This is what happened to David Carruthers, the CEO of BetOnSports – a London Stock Exchange company.
BetOnSports one of the largest sports betting companies in the world and certainly the largest in Costa Rica (owned 36 online gaming sites) was effectively shut down by the US actions.
On the 18th January the company listing on the London FTSE was cancelled.
According to “Some officials say it’s against the law to wager over the Internet or telephone. Others say the illegal part is the gambling operation itself, if it’s set up on U.S. soil — which is why Web sites operate offshore in places such as the Caribbean, Latin America and Australia.”
According to: “The simple answer is there is an explicit law against online betting in only three states – Nevada, California, and Louisiana. Even so, NO American citizen has ever been arrested for betting on the internet.”
According to “The Wire Act explicitly forbids businesses from using a wire communication facility to assist in placing bets on “any sporting event or contest.” But the wire law doesn’t cover other types of casino betting, a federal appeals court in New Orleans has ruled, leaving some doubt whether prosecutors can shut down Internet poker and other casino games.”
Brad I want to thank you so much for validating everthing I have been stating here. In your post above this one you have identified a US company that broke English law by shipping whisky to England from the US on sales taken via the internet. This company then closed it’s doors due to loss of adequate income from sales. This is the exact same thing that has happened in the online gaming industry. On line gaming operations are barred from accepting wagers from outside the state in which it is legal. Thus the arrests in the US same as the arrests in London. Granted this is just an analogy but the principal is the same.
As far as the tax issues that is continually brought up about the winners having to declare their taxable earnings from wagers they won. That is one of the reasons that the internet gaming is outlawed interstate. When someone wins the gaming company issues an WG9 to the winner if pay out is over the limit the WG9 is copied to the IRS if the person wins at a casino where gaming is legal they are responsible for federal taxes and state taxes in the state in which they won. Since offshore internet gaming is prohibited by US law our law enforcement agencies go after the violators of the law the person taking the bet not the person making the wager. The law is clearly written it is prohibited to accept wagers outside of the state in which gaming is legal. We can go around and around again and again but these facts won’t change even if you don’t like them. For a fact I don’t agree with the laws as they are written but they are still the law. I believe that anyone should be able to accept a wager or make a wager from anywhere unfortunately I am not a lawmaker.
Now some other little known facts MGM/MIRAGE Corporation invested several hundred million dollars in establishing internet gaming for it’s Nevada Casino Operations however, they never offered it because US law wouldn’t allow them to accept wagers from outside of Nevada. SO they took the loss never cried about it closed their internet gaming operation before it started and laid off many employees. The head of their internet gaming operations was moved to a different department. I wonder how many posters on here feel bad for these people.
I know that some of you with your anti American attitudes can’t see the forest from the trees and view this as the US out to hurt Ticos this just isn’t the case while it is the result.
The Super Bowl will be played tomorrow and if you scroll up you will read a post that states that the US FBI is in costa rica to arrest and close down sport book operations in Costa Rica. I would like to see if that ever comes to pass as I know it won’t. If it does I will formally appologize but when it doesn’t how many of you will do the same and admit that those are the words of a conspiricy theorist who is anti american. If not anti american then just a conspiricy theorist who knocks the US government at every chance whether true or untrue.
Just for you Marcia: Gaming is Legal in Costa Rica and the US government has no interest in gaming that takes place on Costa Rican soil even by US citizens. The issue is accepting internet wagers from US soil which the US government has every right to regulate and enforce.
Since so many of you have commented on this issue and believe the US is at fault I suggest that you read the indictment link attached and see who you are really defending. Some of the owners of this CR sport book operations were formally illegal book makers in the US and had been arrested over years in the US before moving their operations off shore. (http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2006/July/06_crm_443.html) Please don’t take my word for this read the above link. If you still feel the same then I give up trying to educate you to the facts and I will have to believe you don’t care about the truth.
I must say it is a bit confusing. So since these gambleing sites are not breaking Costa Rican law, can the U.S. come down and arrest someone on Costa Rican Soil? Or can they only issue a warrant and arrest them when they show up in the U.S.? Or perhaps ask for them to be extradited back to the U.S. to face charges? I understand they can get them once here(U.S.), but unless they have permission from Costa Rican authorities I don’t understand how they can shut them down? I guess they stop the flow of money? Tell Visa, Citi-Bank etc…don’t allow transfers involving these “ilegal” companys?
Lotus You are 100% correct they stop the flow of money from the US. Issue US warrants only valid in the US and they do ask for extradition. They don’t close them down per se but they cause them to close since 80-90% of their income comes from the US ilegally. If you click on the link upbove it lays out the government’s case as well as the history of the company. If you read the other posts you are lead to believe that it is this poor little English lad that is being beat up by the big powerful US what they don’t say is he is only 1 partner and the other 10 people arrested are owners as well and all US citizens with a criminal history for this crime in the US.
DKT2U: You are correct also: And if anyone does in depth research they will find the two companies that you reference have 2 different company names but the same ownership. The Principal’s in most of these sport books are former US ilegal bookies with ties to US organized crime in many cases. If you check the history of book making in the US it has been Organized Crime owned and operated even Las Vegas was started by US Gangsters and they ran it until recently. IT is now run by a worse set of people organized business. Corporate America has less of a heart than the worst Gangster. They have made every area of operations in Casinos profit centers thus the high cost of hotel rooms and food today compared with years ago. Although now it is lining the pockets of US corporations instead of gangsters it is still the gambler that is the loser.
Edited on Feb 04, 2007 11:40
You are leaving out some pretty crucial facts…
That “poor little English lad” was not a “partner” at all, he was the Chief Executive Officer – an employee – of BetOnSports which was a London Stock Exchange company.
This is not a bunch of kids working out of a small storage room, this was a publicly traded company on the London Stock Exchange.
Scott Oliver
WeLoveCostaRica.comScott while you are correct they did take the comapny public in an effort to make more money and hide their ownership.
The CEO was given stock (his ownership of stock is why I classified him as a partner) and was being used as the figurehead for an ilegal gambling operation that was moved off shore to continue accepting bets from their same US clients. Thus trying to circumvent the law unfortunately for the CEO the law did catch up with their attempt and he was caught up in a criminal enterprise. Whether knowingly or not he became part of the web of US gangsters. Fortunately he will be allowed to put forth a defense in many other societies he might not have the same rights. I don’t know if he knew they were gangsters and is a willing participant just as another English lad that joined up with the Gambino crime family of New York City that was arrested for a similiar book making operation that involved a Native American Casino to lay off bets a few years ago. This is another London resident who is now enjoying a cell in a federal prison. He and his US Partners fixed horse races commited income tax violations and accepted ilegal bets as bookies. You can Google the name of his Gambino partners that goes by the last name of Uvari and read the indictments and their pleas of guilty accross the board. Thus some English lads are in bed with US criminals by choice and others may have been duped. But the facts are there for you to check out. There have been many straight citizens that have been fronts for organized crime some with knowledge some without ever knowing until the day they get arrested. If you have trouble verifying the facts I outlined above please let me know and I will be happy to provide a link for you.
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