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Scott offered a passionate argument against the rejected “bail out” fund in his article at [ https://www.welovecostarica.com/members/1933.cfm ].
I am no economist so I can’t comment intelligently on the qualities or defects of the plan. And I have no disagreement with Scott’s characterization of the people currently in charge of the terribly destructive government that the American people in their wisdom elected…two times. But as a regular tax payer who sees a credit freeze taking hold here and elsewhere, some realistic alternative besides asking the crooks to pay for their sins, has to be created… and soon.
I am tired of being angry and outraged at the stupidity of the American public and the criminal behavior of the people they keep electing over and over. Instead, I am wearily taking on the pragmatic attitude that the oppressed have always taken. No passionate political morality from me, just a simple question for a difficult problem; what is the best thing to do now?
Get the hell out while you still can! In Italy they are blocking the issuance of passports if you owe back taxes or they suspect you are going to flee the country to avoid debt. it can only follow that this will be applied in the States too as people continue to go completely under. We have a friend here in Colorado who is the caretaker for many properties. Mind you, I live in a billionaire’s ghetto so there are supposedly a lot of really rich peeps in my hood, but my friend said that he has come across two or more households where the people literally walked away: they left everything in their houses, their cars in the garage, and just took their clothes and split! No doubt they didn’t own anything — neither the cars, nor the furniture, all probably bought on credit and soon to be repossessed. Closing the borders to keep people from running out? Oh yeah, that’s a brilliant idea. Shhhhhhhhh. Don’t give the thugs any ideas.
Sprite: Come on down, build that house in the jungle near San Ramon, live the good life, pura vida. Here you can forget all that bad government stuff. Everything is great in Costa Rica. Everyone is beautiful, intelligent, moral with high work ethics. I just read in the paper that Costa Rica is ahead of Haiti for one of the best countries in the world to do business. Maybe you could start a business here. You already know there is no crime in paradise, what could be better. Please come quickly, the Ticos need you. Stop hanging out in the states with those stupid people in the public. When you get here you’ll find only the brightest minds. Give up that American way of life, live like a Tico. Admit it Sprite, you voted republican – twice!
A few thoughts:
1. Bill Clinton passed the bill in 1999 to allow Fannie May to provide loans to people of low income “everyone in America should be able to own a home
2. Alan Greenspan lowered interest rates after 9/11 and encouraged people to take out interest rate only loans on TV. (He wrote a thesis on how people inject money into the economy when they refinance or buy a home) (Bernanke’s thesis was on the great depression and how the government should have not tightened money and should have taken a stronger position to help failing banks (how ironic)
3. The last time I checked Wall Street doesn’t lend money for people to buy a home. Banks do that. (How the American Real Estate industry is not involved in your comments escapes me) 3 out of the last 4 recessions in America were lead by a housing downturn- make that 4 out of the last 5 after the 3rd and 4th qtr numbers come out (thanks to congress’s inaction)
4. As far as I know Wall Street did not buy a house they could not afford.
5. I did not see Wall Street building too many homes in California, Florida, and Arizona.
6. Yes-Wall Street buys mortgages for investors and one could argue that they should have done better research on the paper
7. Yes -Wall Street (and Banks) use leverage in their business model- they have been doing this for years. (15 to 1 on banks – and because of Clinton law change in the 90’s 30 to 1 (plus) on brokerage houses.
8. If the mortgages were not marked to market like they were in the past these loans would not have to be written down until the actual default occurred. Right now all the mortgages are written down to 0 except AAA paper is written down to 40 cents on the dollar. Because of the mark to market the fact that these firms are being forced to sell their assets to deleverage their business is a big cause of the problem. and the ensuing panic has freezed up the credit markets.The 700 billion for the most part (excluding the political BS) was to help by buying the mortgages so the firms would not have to continue to deleverage- if the government owned the paper they would not be marked to market anymore.
I see this helping the overall world economy more than Wall Street – over 55 percent of Americans own equities – and many peoples largest asset outside their house is their 401k- this hurts everyone. Blaming Wall Street is an easy cop out- I am not sure what happened to Scott in his prior career to make him so jaded. But Wall Street did not create this problem. Do they have a part yes, is there greed in Wall Street yes- anywhere there is money there is greed and corruption even in Costa Rica (current political scanals). I guess it is fair to like the peaceful people in Costa Rica but to lump all of Wall Street together as bastards in your forum.
In my opinion what has been so disturbing is the single most consistent point for peoples decision is getting theirs at the expense of everyone else.
The Banks.
The consumer who needed more than they could afford.
The builders who over built.
The government – who can’t even agree to help save the economy because they want to be re elected.
The American people who don’t want to help out the people who over spent because they deserve what they get. This is opposite the kind of behavior that made this country great. We have had a great history of banding together for causes greater than ourselves. This is embarrassing and we deserve the negative outcome if we can’t help ourselves by helping each other.I work on Wall Street – I live below my means and pay my taxes- more than my fair share and have never been thanked by anyone. I never took out a mortgage I could not afford and will not walk away from my house. Wall Street really doesn’t feel they need congress’ assistance it will just be much more painful for everyone – worldwide without it.
WoW, are you the one in the pictures with his head in his hands? Derivative Jeff?
Please. Ok, by your inference, let’s have Paulson figure out just how much all of you “benefactors” have over paid in taxes, and we’ll give you that plus the current t-bill rate. I can tell objectivity when I read it.Get out while you can is my #1 fear. How much time do we really have before travel is restricted based on frequency and/or pure speculative suspicion? Will CR be classified as a country of interest? We have become prisoners in our own homes because they are not worth near what hey were 1 year ago. Does not matter whether you have lived in it for 16 years because no one is buying!!!
grb, are you the prototype of the people who would be helped (besides the looters) by a government bailout? A prisoner in your own home because of the PROVEN artificial value placed on it by your apparent co-conspirators in this Ponzi scheme and their criminal manipulation of the lending industry? Is that YOU?
There was a time when the well being of this country was indicated by the ability of a young couple to get into their own home…in an honest and straightforward way.
What exactly are you saying in terms of respect about your neighborhood, home town, and the life you have led for 16 years when you now regard yourself a prisoner there?VB,
I am not intrested in co-operation with any society with a bottom line mentality. They can flush the whole economy down the toilet and I won’t shed a tear. I am not on their side. Like most sane people, I want what is best for me and my family. That is not what our leaders are interested in and the voting public is too stupid to see that.Like most Americans, I found myself growing up and working in a country that was touted to be the best place in the world. By the time I traveled and found my political compass, I had a family to take care of. That trumped my politics and I stayed like a good little tax payer because it seemed to me that endless shopping malls and newer cars and money were good things and because it was easier to stay than to leave. After 40 years of working and doing what was expected of me as a citizen, it is now looking like it may be wiser to leave than to stay.
Say what you like about the life style in Costa Rica, that it is backwards, filled with thieves and relaxed work ethics. It still feels more comfortable to me than living in this circus where the clowns crowd into the malls and pour onto the roads in their huge SUV’s and ring master is the most ridiculous clown of all.I have had it with
the consumer/worker treadmill and being pick pocketed by corporations and government. I wonder what they are going to come with now for this big mess. I hope to watch from afar.I am not a naive, non-Spanish speaking, pushy gringo with high expectations. I am very familiar with life in rural Spanish speaking cultures. It is not new to me. I make my choice with some experience.
I have also lived all over the world, am well educated (Master’s) and fluent in Spanish by birth. I am not naive by any stretch and am solvent. I would never have even considered an ARM mortgage and was smart enough to capitalize on very low interest rates when I refinanced to a 15 year fixed rate mortgage at less than 5%. My prisoner in my own home statement was aimed at the fact that the value of my home vs. the balance owed needs to be a certain amount so I can quietly depart the purported safe haven, low crime and best country in the world to live in … pure unadulterated hog wash! I am better off then most. My cars are owned, all my auto expenses are a paid benefit, I have full health insurance coverage for myself, wife and two children who no longer live at home that costs me $0 and I have $0 credit debt. We are prisoners here of sorts, for everything in the US is focused on working, making money, paying bills and survival. The priority of family is somewhere down the list as is evident of the incredible growth in assisted living facilities. We put our folks in homes so they do not interfere with our lives.
Many of us are trapped by circumastance or the naive notion that the world revolves around the US and cannot or would not even consider leaving. Those of us who are well travelled, pay close attention to the state of the financial markets and have carefully planned for the inevitable know there is a better way than the rat race we call the USA. The formula/model is broken and the younger generation has neither the education or the work ethic to maintain any assemblance of status quo. My greatest concern is what lies in wait for my children and future grandchildren.Ah…I see said the blind man. grb, your “prisoner” conclusion was easily understood without a reiteration. I’m alarmed by your “formula/model” and “status quo” perspectives, and what’s conveyed (at least to me) is what certain Germans were “concerned” about and “feared” round about 1944. And where does the failure lie then? With all you got going, to quote “Those of us…who have carefully planned for the inevitable”, you state that your children have neither the education nor work ethic to maintain your beloved status quo…nor, apparently, the survival skills necessary without your accustomed privileged sanctuary. Wow, such honesty. You ARE a co-conspirator in this lunacy. I think that the mind set and “status quo” you are seeking in Latin America might be found in a country such as Argentina. Why don’t you leave these ticans alone.
Darn, I hate it when I get my butt whipped so bad in a debate grb. Well thought out response. But then again, what else is there to say, it all seems so obvious.
I am sorry that I missed the flurry of activity here but I cant resist weighing in anyway.
Jeff the banks are the market makers. They have as one would say “made their own bed”. By suspending mark to market you merely delay the inevitable. There has been and continues to be such a stream of propaganda coming form the financial industry that very few can pull apart the heroes and villains. Read up on Basel II if you really want to get an idea why the US financial system is so f**ked. Now we devalue the currency again and postpone the reporting of TRILLIONS of dollars in bank assets under FAS 140. The banks answer is to socialize the losses and bury the bodies in accounting tricks.
Now lets get something straight. The “government” is not the buyer. The TAXPAYER is. Why should we pay a premium for something that is going to remain static at best in order to prop up shareholder value. There are plenty of Private Equity companies, Community banks and credit unions ready to lend. They have guidelines. This bill is unbelievably flawed. You’re right Wall Street did not create the problem but they have been enablers through the pump and pump insider shenanigans promoted by the TV “stock experts”. This is a Financial System Rescue Bill and anything else is bs.
Oh thanks to Clinton too for the 1996 Telecommunications Act that gave us Roger Ailes at Fox Noise and CNBC’s brilliant manipulator Jim Cramer. The cable news networks sold this bill hard after parading out self serving a******* like Warren Buffett while only months ago Helicopter Hank and Bernanke panky were saying “its all good”. Paulson was gushing after Bush signed the bill. Maybe its because he doesnt have a Kalashnikof pointed at head for a while.
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