What cost concrete work?

[kimball]

As a matter of fact a quality paver in the US is 3-5 times stronger. But i dont know if that is the case in CR. Also i have no idea of the cost of either of the two in CR.

[Michlic]

[quote=”kimball”]As a matter of fact a quality paver in the US is 3-5 times stronger. But i dont know if that is the case in CR. Also i have no idea of the cost of either of the two in CR.[/quote]

In the states you are most likely pouring slabs (driveways) at 2500psi, Here in CR and Canada is closer to 4,000 psi. Other than the states the whole world is metric and here it is refered to as 32Mpa
Pavers are manufactured here the same as the states with a drypack concrete and cure out at 8,000 – 10,000 psi. Double that of concrete here and 4 times your slab requirements.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”kimball”]What is everyones opinion on pavers vs concrete in CR.[/quote]

Esthetics plays a part in my decision.

I have a hill of 75 feet at about a 30% grade and plan to use Zacate Blok planting zacate grass in all open areas will serve to stablize it and I have a 30 x 20 parking area that I want to use the zacate blok for the bottom. Zacate blok are 1,000 colones each. Blok size is about 8″ x 16″ x 4″ thick.

Unless I hear good arguements against it I would prefer the zacate and there should be no slippage of the blok down the hill.

Pavers are an advantage over concrete in that rain water will drain between the pavers .

[2bncr]

After the grass grows in the block will you have traction problems on a 30% grade? Plus you have to weed eat the grass so it does not cover all the pavers. On the coast I see that the grass covers the sacate block but where I live in San Jose sometimes I see the block with empty squares.

If a contractor charges $4,000 for 100 m2 on concrete, what do the paver cost for 100 m2 or per m2?

I have not built anything substancial in 10 years but with all due respect that $40 m2 seems high/ What do you all think?

My nieghbor has the most beautiful brick shaped concrete paver driveway in harringbone pattern. magnificent. My concrete drive way after 12 years has wear spots in it.

[caliskatari]

Like I mentioned before Construction work in the Guanacaste area averages higher then in the rest of the country, so cost in your area will be lower. Here higher material costs, and/or transportation costs, higher labor costs, and also there is more demand for quality construction here so in general prices here a typically 15-20% higher. Also the price I mentioned included preparation work including backhoe, compaction and drainage works with almost always need to be done.

If I was doing work in San Jose given the lower cost of many expenses, and doing simple slab pour on a already prepared surface, the cost could come around $20-25/square meter ($1.90- 2.40 per foot). Site preparation work can account for 25% of the this kind of project’s cost so of course that would make a big difference in cost and depends on the job.

We are a full service company including architectural/engineering services so all designing and planning would have been also included in that rough cost.

Here in Guanacaste Ready mix pours almost never happen (given the poor quality of product and service in our area, and in many cases difficult delivery situations) so that price quoted was for a driveway poured in sections using concrete mixed on the site which can be done anywhere in Costa Rica.

I hope that makes things more clear and gives you a better idea regarding costs

[waggoner41]

[quote=”2BNCR”]After the grass grows in the block will you have traction problems on a 30% grade? Plus you have to weed eat the grass so it does not cover all the pavers. On the coast I see that the grass covers the sacate block but where I live in San Jose sometimes I see the block with empty squares.[/quote]
Zacate planted 1/4″ to 1/2″ below the level of the concrete should allow a mostly grassy appearance while the wheels should act as a weed eater does as it passes over it. The Zacate Blok should allow most water to drain through unless you get a very heavy rain. It will still require a horizontal gutter to accommodate those. I drive a 1980 Datsun 2 wheel drive pickup that’s light in the rear. The Zacate Blok offers more traction and I intend to experiment with the grass at the top before doing the whole thing. The parking area will have to be cut.

[quote=”2BNCR”]If a contractor charges $4,000 for 100 m2 on concrete, what do the paver cost for 100 m2 or per m2?[/quote]
I haven’t priced pavers because they wont work for my slope. They are too slick.

[quote=”2BNCR”]I have not built anything substancial in 10 years but with all due respect that $40 m2 seems high/ What do you all think?[/quote]
Look back at the cost estimates for Guanacaste and extrapolate from that. I don’t mind paying a little more for top-notch work but I don’t want to get ripped either.

[quote=”2BNCR”]My nieghbor has the most beautiful brick shaped concrete paver driveway in harringbone pattern. magnificent. My concrete drive way after 12 years has wear spots in it.[/quote]
I agree with the beauty of the pavers. If you are substasntially level they are great.

All of the estimates I get are labor with a list of material. Our money is tight and I am looking for a source of factory second or used blok.

[b]My advantage[/b] is having a Tico family in house that knows the San Jose area very well to help locate the items I need.

[Michlic]

My intent was not to offend or critisize. Things in CR are simular to the old west and prices and service changes dramatically in short distance. I as well build in Guanecaste, I am erecting a block manufacturing plant as well as a ready mix plant for the same reasons you mentioned Caliskatari. Please don’t take offense to my comments on pricing. This is the reason I did not mention prices in my initial response.

There are many variables towards prices and you have posted profesional protocal and I trust you are perfectly compentant in your installations. Nonetheless, buying power of product, experienced crew, and volumn of work also dictates a companies ROI. Therefore, requiring a consumer to take adequate measures when hiring a sub trade or tradesman.

I am sure Caliskatari, you have come across competitor tenders that don’t measure to your quality or expertise, and can share a few stories forth with.

[Michlic]

All of the estimates I get are labor with a list of material. Our money is tight and I am looking for a source of factory second or used blok.

[b]My advantage[/b] is having a Tico family in house that knows the San Jose area very well to help locate the items I need.[/quote]

If money is an issue you may wish to incorporate more than one system of finishes. Use an decorative hardscape finish for borders and banding, than your blocks inbetween, change patterns giving your hardscape architectual design. If you are looking for used or seconds, than these purchases are usually in small quantities. So be creative, us color and design, as well as function for traction. You will have unique one of a kind and make it look like on purpose and not ‘patchy’. concrete with stones broadcast on top will give you an exposed aggregate finish which is free if you collect enough. Incorporate stones, and natural habitant materials. You will cut cost tremendously with creative design finishes. Doesn’t have to be square either, use diamond patterns, and angles.

Just food for thought.

[2bncr]

waggoner41 – investigate the traction angle on the slope for the Z-block. I remeber having trackion problems in Manuel Antonio on them. Also they do require more maintanence which in the long run adds up. I like the idea of mixed products such as rocks etc. I think that would help reduce costs. I have a very large meditation garden and I used the native rocks and it is beautiful. So natural and maintainece free.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”Michlic”]polyfibers have great advantages over rebar. The consistency is from top to bottom where rebar can easily be tramped to the ground doing no good. Polyfibre also holds the hydration of the concrete elliminating shrinkage cracks or spalding and allows the concrete to cure at an even constant for the 28 day curing time. Polyfibre is same price as metal reinforcing and should not alter the price of installation. If your metal reinforcing as began to corrode, it will continue to corrode and emit gas (explain later). Thus losing reinforcing value.
[/quote]
One last question…I am leaning toward Fibromax without metal reinforcing. Control joints will crack exposing the metal to rust conditions.
If I go this route how much fibromax would be needed for what measure of concrete for best strength?
If you think this is not a good decision, let me know.

[waggoner41]

To all who have participated in this discussion I give thanks.

I worked in construction for 33 years on the other end of the job as a final wall repairman and painter and just as there is much to know about what I did there is much to be learned about the ins and outs of other trades.

I have a basic knowledge of process of all trades except HVAC. The details are something that I never had to consider until now.

We face a new world here with conditions that rarely had to be considered in the States.

Thanks again,
Les

[Michlic]

One last question…I am leaning toward Fibromax without metal reinforcing. Control joints will crack exposing the metal to rust conditions.
If I go this route how much fibromax would be needed for what measure of concrete for best strength?
If you think this is not a good decision, let me know.[/quote]

Yes, I believe this is a good choice. Personally I prefer fiber of metal for driveways, and is standard for my company in residential projects.

Fiber come in different sizes for different applications and can be complicated, so I will only tell you that the standard mix is one pound per cubic meter, and a 32Mpa concrete. Fibers come in bio degadable bags, and we throw bag and all into the truck one 1 lb bag per meter. If mixing on site, than divide evenly for consistantcy. Mix well or fibres will bunch together, this usually takes about 10 minutes.

You won’t be disappointed.

[kimball]

Fiber is for lazy people who try to fool their customers. I love how it comes in different sizes and how it is for some reason complicated.

Bottom line is if you want a truly strong slab on grade that will stand the test of time to ground expansion and contraction then their is only one alternative and it is a wire mesh product specific for your seismic zone.

I used to sell the same old BS line about fiber to Mrs.Smith and her next door neighbor and so on and so on.

The worst part is, it isnt that hard to pull the wire up.

Gets back to the lazy part i guess.

You guys want a quality slab poured or a properly built block structure then let me know. Im coming to build 3 of my own.

[Michlic]

You guys want a quality slab poured or a properly built block structure then let me know. Im coming to build 3 of my own.[/quote]

[b]Good luck with your sales campaign[/b]

I am here to post information and share my expertise. I am not selling or looking for work. My comments are totally unbiased. My references and sources will solidify all my comments.

Here are a few links that of more ‘BS’ [url=http://www.fibermesh.com/downloads/Propex_ER_17.pdf]engineer comparison report[/url]
[url=http://www.fibermesh.com/downloads/Fibermesh%20150.pdf]small fiber for smaller slabs [/url]
[url=http://www.fibermesh.com/downloads/Fibermesh%20300.pdf]larger fibers[/url]
There are metal fibers, different length of fibers, stainless fibers, titanium fibers, weight per yard differencials, etc.

All of the above is based on me having more than 30 years experience in the concrete industry. I am second generation from my father. My company in Canada is union and we perform multiple government contracts for curbs, sidewalks and road construction. We have all our own heavy equipment which also includes a Gomaco GT 3600 slip form paver (curb machine). My company in Florida is credited with projects at Disney World, Busch Gardens, Universal Studios, Tampa Bay Aquarium, Barnett Park (Lakeland) as well as constructing high end homes in access of 10,000 squ ft. In addition: building high end homes and developments in Costa Rica and currently erecting a block manufacturing plant for block and pavers as well as a concrete ready mix plant in Guanacaste.

I don’t see the word lazy in any of the above.

I would be interested in seeing your resources, as I always keep an open mind. Could you also mention your experiences and credentials to qualify your self as compentant.

Regards,
M

[kimball]

First let me say that im not on a sales campaign. I sold my very successful masonry and concrete company more than a year ago and glad to be relaxing.

2nd let me say that i in no way intended to make you get defensive. I am not questioning your credentials or your integrity.

With that said, I have torn out and replaced enough driveways in my 30 year tenure to know the difference between fiber and wire.

Here in CO. we have bentonite in the soil and fibers are kind of a joke here. Slabs poured with wire stays together longer. Period.

And no i will not get in a squawking match with you over resume. I have completed many big commercial projects where i contracted all concrete and masonry. Not to mention the hundreds of foundations and driveways for residential homes during the big boom.

Good luck to u and ur business in CR. Im retired.

[Author]

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