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So, it is convenient to hold onto your US passport so you can travel, eh?
Sprite, spend five years as a resident in CR, then you can apply for citizenship there. I think you will still have to renounce your citizenship to the US, in order to stop paying taxes. Then again, you may still have to. I’m sure they will be glad to stop your SS payments as well. Check with a professional.
The question I have is, if you have no use for the US, why would you want the SS, outside of the obvious answer, you paid for it?
Thanks for catching the humor. We’ll be going out for a while. I’m sure I’ll be missed. LOL Catch up with you later tonight. I’m sure there will be more cannon fodder by then.
Sprite, Try calling the US State dept. I’m sure they’ll be able to help, if you really are intent on giving up the passport. Another way is to become a citizen of another country and renounce all your loyalties to the USA. Or, you could apply for political asylum in another nation. Cuba, by way of the consulate in Mexico may be able to help. Although Lee Harvey Oswald had a rough time.
I hope I’ve been of assistance. I think I’ll be keeping mine.
Everyone born in the USA has the right of keeping their passport, and the right to criticize their government. That passport was issued by the people’s government of the US. The government works for the people, unless things have gone incredibly wrong in the past 231 years. Sometimes we forget that.
If a person chooses to turn in their passport, that is their own business. Making them turn it in is a matter of un-American behavior. Wanting them to turn it in, makes me question the person doing the asking.
I agree with most of your sentiments Rebeca. Where we disagree, is in the opinion that there is hope it can be any other way. While I would like to share that hope, history tells me otherwise. There are just too many times when nations and peoples refuse to settle by discussion, rather than war. History repeats itself throughout the human record. The odds are in favor of this being a continuing trend.
Aggression is built into the psyche of human beings. Whenever a group is large enough, mob mentality, whether in the form of patriotism, religious or ethnic unity, prevails. I guess the same might be said of righteous people, but it is possible they do not have the same capacity to use a galvanizing issue to bring about peaceful change. Maybe this says something about how we are psychologically wired. We always have the capability for change, but we use violent means too frequently to bring about most change. An example would be our own revolution.
Great points, Lotus.
Some quotes by Theodore Roosevelt;
To announce that there must be no criticism of the president… is morally treasonable to the American public. T.R .
We can have no “50-50” allegiance in this country. Either a man is an American and nothing else, or he is not an American at all. T.R.
There can be no fifty-fifty Americanism in this country. There is room here for only 100% Americanism, only for those who are Americans and nothing else. T.R.
The pacifist is as surely a traitor to his country and to humanity as is the most brutal wrongdoer. T.R.
The man who loves other countries as much as his own stands on a level with the man who loves other women as much as he loves his own wife. T.R.
Just some food for thought by another American president.
Always was that way, always will be, Rebeca. There are times, when military force is needed and justified. Unfortunately, the military is used all too often as an expeditious way to achieve a goal.
We will never completely remove the military, or the threats that require its existence. New challenges constantly being brought forth by the world in which we live will see to that. It is wrong to condemn all protective forces. They are a necessary evil. Could you imagine the possibility of the US not having a standing army? Costa Rica can do it because they know the US would intervene if they were invaded. A Tico last year told me as much when I posed the question of who would be expected to come to CR’s aide in the event of attack. He said, why of course we expect the US to respond. He said it in a way that almost had a hint of pride. Not for the fact that CR is taking it for granted, just that the friendship between our two nations is that strong. My opinion is that there are many Ticos that have a sincere friendly nature toward the US, as far as people our are concerned. Their opinion of our government, is another story.
Costa Rica is an example for the rest of the world by not having an army. They only did it so their own government would not be taken over militarily again. Do you think it is really ever going to catch on? I Don’t. With all the knucklehead crackpot dictators, religious fanatics, and other maniacs in the mix, it is almost impossible to disarm. If countries would only use their military for national defense, that would be a great situation, but we all know it is never going to happen.
Armies have been one of the world’s constants, from biblical times to the present. I can’t see any possible way they would ever disband on a global level.
David, you are a little pessimistic. I know people that will not have children because of the situation here, and I think it is sad. Everyone has their reasons for doing what they do. For you the decision was made, and at least you are content with it.
I don’t like the catastrophic scenarios you present. We may be headed in that direction anyway with the way things are looking. I hope it turns around. We have two children we would like to see have a chance.
The graduated flat tax I had in mind, was one of a two tier system. I realize the one we have in place is graduated, but much to complex, and with too many loopholes. After 65 years old, or under a certain annual income level, the tax would be at one rate, whatever that number happens to be. Above that certain ceiling of income, another rate is fixed and remains constant. All retired seniors over 65 would be on the lower scale. Somewhat of a reward for life’s work. Remember all deductions are eliminated, and the tax is on all income. This may not be the brightest idea, but it is simpler.
Diegito, Very interesting thoughts you have there.
David, I did leave out the private sector, and that was a mistake on my part. Where there is a will (goofing off, goldbricking) there is a way.
After some thought about the flat tax, I can understand those that are least able to pay will have the most in the way of hardship. Having said that, It is possible a graduated flat tax is one solution. I’m certainly not an expert, but a simpler and equitable tax code makes sense.
I can understand why you would favor the present system. It is already in place, and seems to take the burden off the less fortunate or lower income groups. It is somewhat compassionate, but with many people being able to reduce their adjusted gross incomes, many pay less than their fair share, shifting the burden to the middle and lower classes.
I think it was Jefferson who said, and I’ll paraphrase, The republic will stand, till the populous figures out they can vote largess from the public treasury. Special interests are another group that figures they deserve an extra slice of government cheese.
The last bunch I forgot to mention was lobbyists. When are we going to send these miscreants packing, and let them know the government is not for sale? Probably never.
My friend, we have many issues and many challenges. None of what we say here will change things. We have to look toward electing individuals that reflect integrity, honor, duty and compassion. Our process is on its knees at present, and we have to make a stand for real change if we are going to leave an inheritance to our future generations.
Costa Rica is a young democracy, and should hopefully learn from the mistakes other free nations have made. They appear to be more engaged in their processes than we are in the US. It should be a sign they have a healthy environment in which to determine their destiny.
Good points, David, good points indeed. I don’t want to abolish income tax. The point I was making, was that taxation always starts out with a problem that needs to be solved. Once it is solved, they never stop the revenue stream. They just divert it to other and new programs. I don’t disagree we need an income tax, or other forms of financial support for government. I would like to see the government become more efficient, and use our tax dollars wisely, by not granting funds to study ridiculous, unfounded “scientific” projects and such. Pork barrel spending is another joke.
I know you were a former public employee, and by all accounts most probably a responsible and diligent public servant. And I thank you for your service to our nation. There are others who goldbrick and should be taken to task, I know a few. You can’t deny governmental employee waste and freeloading exists.
Essential government services, like the ones you mentioned, are just that, essential. We need government to protect and defend its citizens. That is their primary job.
While I do not expect to be holding off the muggers with my own firearm, The police can’t be everywhere, and usually show up after the crime has been committed. We are somewhat responsible for our own security.
We have a volunteer fire dept. where we live, and it is amazing that the commitment of volunteers rivals that of the paid depts. elsewhere. I don’t think it works that way everywhere, but it is nice to know it can.
We can’t rely on government to supply “womb to the tomb” services to us. Look what they’ve done with Social Security and Medicare. The new Medicare prescription plan is already in trouble. The Social security system was supposed to be a trust fund. When they raided it, and put it into the general fund, it became an IOU funded by younger workers, who may never even see benefits by the time they retire. Birthrates are down in the US, and we need more taxpayers into the system. Hence the need for mass immigration. They do not run large programs well. They need new ideas.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, there is a perception we are overtaxed and under-served in the US. Some countries like Norway feel they are getting a good bang for their buck with their socialized system. The problem here is, we can’t make up our minds. We want capitalism with socialized benefits. It just ain’t gonna work.
You also can’t have government, which adds nothing to the GDP, be one of the largest employers in a country either. The burden gets harder and harder for business and the middle class to bear.
As far as any answers to the dilema….I haven’t a clue. Just some suggestions. A flat tax based on all income in that year. No deductions, no loophole, no nothing. A citizens review board made up of people from every walk of life, not just the academics. All government programs, and pork barrel spending should come under their review. It will take decades to perform this, but it is a start. Fix the programs that are in place, like SS and Medicare. Make sure we can fund these promises that were made to us. Take a look at our foreign policy and see if it benefiting us, or if it is just another boondoggle of wasted spending on client nations. While we’re at it, look at the benefit, if any, of sticking our nose everywhere around the planet to nation build and spread Democracy. It may be a noble cause, but should we really be doing it.
We have to take care of our own first, with as little money from us as possible, so we can have a better life. The above suggestions, are only that. They may be a little simplistic and maybe a little crazy. They are just my thoughts. And like most thoughts, they are subject to change.
I’m sure this will endear me to everyone. As a future expat in CR, I believe we should pay our fair share. We were not born there, did not contribute all our lives to the country’s GDP, and we will receive some subsidized government benefits. The CAJA, for example. A simple tax on our SS payments, or an alternative minimum tax should be imposed. We can’t expect a free ride just because we have relocated. I think it is the responsible thing to do.
David, I hope you don’t think I was picking on you in this response. I was just doing, as usual, a little venting.
Remember when personal income tax was supposed to be temporary? During WW1 I believe. Once they start, they never let it go. Like tolls on the bridges, until they are paid for…
Edited on Nov 15, 2007 18:36
Sprite, Free speech and freedom overrated? C’mon, do you really believe that? It is because we still have free speech and freedom, we can talk like this here, and in public. Freedom give us the opportunity so we can choose to participate in the workings of government, or choose to opt out. You can’t yell fire in a crowded theater, but you can certainly express your views without being fearful of being censured or arrested. At least right now.
Even though we are complaining of the conditions in the US at this moment, it is still better than Cuba, China, Russia, Venezuela, and a whole host of other countries. The right, and it is still a right not a privilege, of free speech has been one of the foundations of the Republic.
We may couch our words, be careful what we say around some people, or just feel saying a certain thing is inappropriate, but you still can say what you want in almost any circumstance. It is possibly fear of embarrassment, or concern for other’s feelings that may limit the content of your speech. These, as you pointed out, are self imposed limits on free speech.
Rebeca, You and I have had discussions about Che before. I fully respect your feelings about him. Your knowledge of the true Che is infinitely more than mine. I know you had relatives in Cuba during that time, and still do now. I could never possibly imagine what it was truly like. I have read only Anderson’s biography, and some of Che’s writings. I believe his principles and intent, in his early formation of his philosophy, was of noble intent. Along the way he became as many others. His methods were ruthless (firing squads and the like), and he believed in violent, rather than peaceful revolutionary solutions for Cuba, and the world’s oppressed population. I admired his intellect, and his ideals of wanting to set persecuted peoples free from the governments that bound them. His methods are not any that I share.
“Never suppose that in any possible situation or under any circumstances that it is best for you to do a dishonorable thing however slightly so it may appear to you. Encourage all your virtuous dispositions, and exercise them whenever an opportunity arises, being assured that they will gain strength by exercise…and that exercise will make them habitual.” Thomas Jefferson
That statement by Thomas Jefferson, may have struck a nerve, and given me a little pause about raising anyone on a pedestal. The ends never justify the means. There are no perfect heroes, there are no perfect men or women. We tend to magnify what we see as the good in a person, and minimize the evil or unsavory. Further knowledge of any individual can change our opinion of them. Wisdom comes with age, sometimes. We should never stop learning, or listening to other people’s thoughts and opinions.
Learning from history, and learning from each other in this forum, has opened my eyes in the past year. Even though we are a same interest group (Costa Rica), there is a lot of diversity of thought here. I enjoy all of the discussions we have, and it is my sincerest wish they may continue.
I know at times I can be provocative or annoying. Thanks for putting up with me. You too, Scott,
