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[quote=”VictoriaLST”]So, we are staying on topic? No more invective? No more personal insults? That would be a pleasure.
First, have we decided that Israel has the right to exist?[/quote]
fair enough, and no, we have not decided who exists or not….nor are we in agreement on who, what, when there…….
[quote=”sprite”][quote=”VictoriaLST”]So, we are staying on topic? No more invective? No more personal insults? That would be a pleasure.
First, have we decided that Israel has the right to exist?[/quote]
Depends upon the definition of “right to exist”. They certainly dont have the right to exist at the expense of others.
Another question is whether or not Israelis can learn to get along with their neighbors. Their behavior, historically, has pissed off their neighbors.[/quote]
People have a right to exist, not countries per se and if said nation is arrogant, dangerous, then no…….
[quote=”VictoriaLST”]And, lets see. I am witless, behind the curve, ignorant, uninformed, foolish, misinformed, clueless, .[/quote]
BINGO! most of the time!:D
[quote=”maravilla”]many historians believe, and have stated, that the treatment of the Palestinians is in fact genocidal and that what the Israelis have done can only be described as ethnic cleansing. if you didn’t know that, Victoria, then you are way behind the curve on this topic and you need to get educated before you speak.[/quote]
The Palestinians are a thorn to national israel and as the Talmud teaches that non-Jews are worse then animals,etc,etc-they are “allowed” to act and do what they have done……the arab is not going away and out-breeding the jew,who aborts, has less kids and contracepts far more. That is why the IDF has in times, dumped porn in the arabs yard, to pervert and destroy the family….and when bullets cant do the trick, more subtle means are used. SOme yrs back, there were stories circulating that the IDF wanted to buy race-specific weapns, biological, but did not as it would kill them to, many arabs and jews being of the same genetic stock, via Abraham and 1000’s of yrs of regional living and inter-marrying…..
[quote=”DavidCMurray”][quote=”VictoriaLST”]Let me get this straight: There is an 85+ year policy of genocide, but the UN is OK with that? Admit them to observer status anyway?[/quote]
You’re talking about the Palestinians, right, Victoria? Let me just point out that Germany, Turkey, Iraq, Russia, Japan and Serbia, among others, are full members of the U.N. Like our own history [i]vis a vis[/i] the native American population, none of their histories is exactly pristine pure on the genocide scale.
And while the Palestinians’ attitudes and behavior toward the Jews in Israel has certainly (and just maybe understandably) been hostile, you can hardly characterize their behavior to date as “genocidal”.[/quote]
True, not to the level of:
-USA treatment of native AMericans (I am a scant part of that group)
-Turkey’s treatment of the Armenians
-Jews treatment of non-jews (or quislings of the evangelical mark)
-Russia pograms against anyone they do not like, now or last 500+ yrs
-japanese treatment of non-japanese
-ditto for China and esp, anyone wanting non-communism…..[quote=”VictoriaLST”]Let me get this straight: There is an 85+ year policy of genocide, but the UN is OK with that? Admit them to observer status anyway?[/quote]
Genocide is by jews mainly, and they are fully recognized and supported political state……..so yes, the UN is ok with that…….also, is more like 65 yrs…..bear in mind, pre 1941, the jews and arabs in Palestine mainly got along fine, save for a few events here and there………does that not happen in the USA? blacks vs whites vs hispanics and on and on….Limbaugh, your hero, made a career out of the communist technique of false A vs B thinking, polorizing people into 2-and only 2 allowed-camps and then ranting on those “sources of all evils” defined as “liberals” and “democrats” and ignoring his “side”……
Result-its all a complete farce and phony……..
David M notes there are more going on then we see and hear and he is right……[quote=”maravilla”]i feel only marginally better that someone else recognizes how asleep the masses are. [/quote]
and most chose to be, for not to be, one has to deal with the world as it is and that would require one to take action…..easier to beleive the pablem being shoveled out, while watching the bombs drop on TV and shoveling GMO food into ones mouth…
[quote=”DavidCMurray”][quote=”VictoriaLST”]
When Israel was granted statehood, no one asked Muslims to leave the new country. [/quote]Well, you have this partially right, Victoria. It’s true that “. . . no one [b]asked[/b] [i][emphasis added][/i] Muslims to leave . . .”. They were dispossessed of their rightfully owned property, property which as a group they had occupied for many generations, and driven off at gunpoint. If you think that the entire Palestinian population decided of their own free will to mass together in Gaza, you clearly have no grasp of the historical facts.
If the Jewish people have any legal or moral right to a homeland (and I strongly assert that they do), then the Palestinians have the same right being, in fact, equally human as any other ethnic group. That radical factions of the Muslim population see the route to satisfaction of their needs and wants lying in armed conflict hardly makes them unique.
[/quote]Their homeland should be where ever they live or choose to live. They are the only group that in nearly 2000 yrs, does not feel at home and seperate themselves, from every home they live in, often when said home is welcoming to them…This is something that Chesterton and Belloc noted, while decrying the jews persecution, that their time, at Hitler’s hands.
Todays radical is one that is tired of being pushed around and has siad enough is enough and struck out, wrong often, as it is (civilians are never a legit target).Right to on free will and choosing to live.
Recall, that for centuries, Palestine was in the hands of the Ottoman Empire-comprised of many ethnic groups, loosely untied by Islam, though varying forms (Sunni, Shite,etc).
After WWI, they were placed under a mandate and the land divided between colonialistic France and UK.
At the urging of jewish interests in the USA, UK, after WWII, the UK allowed or transported 1000’s of Jews to Palestine, though emmigration had been trickling for 200 yrs prior, not enough to cause friction and for the most part, people got along.
After WWII, the UN and UK/USA decided to divide the land up, never asking the people there for much input, nor where to draw lines on the map (hence, Iraq and Kuwait are really false nations, no one asked for them to be divided nor where nor how).
INflux of many, many Jews into Palestine, many educated and heavily armed.
Backed by the powers noted above. The USA has ability to block security council decisions single handed.
Now 60 yrs later, we have millions of jews, again, heavily financed and armed…violating UN mandates and agreements.
No input from arabs/Muslims and no one agreed to the UN mandates in the 1940’s,let alone now.
People that lived for centuries are told where they are to live, how is in charge, where boundries are,etc.
Jews control the weapons, also, water and roads….the jewish populace now has to go armed to the teeth anywhere and part of buying property is the question “does it havea fall out shelter”.
great way to live…..
Behind it all is a man centered ideology of zionism, many of its proponents manipulate religion, but often are not too religious or even, non-beleivers….
back that up with kooky Christians of the last 200 yrs that “discovered” theology somehow not discovered in 1800 yrs prior, of the Rapture and the jews being allowed into Palestine (hence, when they can force this, they get to be sucked up in the clouds).
For more on this, many, many articles by Catholic writers debunking the whole thing…….
Luther, Calvin and others did not teach this, either…..many taught that the rise of Israel, at the End Times, would usher in WWIII, antichrist ruling from Israel/Jerusalem, initially, and many bad things……..side note-some founders of the PLO where Christians…..
[quote=”maravilla”]it is absolutely tragic how misinformed you are on this topic. http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/the_zionist_story_2009/%5B/quote%5D
actually, for Victoria, it is becoming apparent she is not informed at all-and likes it that way.
Some, while thinking they are intelligent, are programmed by Faux “News” and DittoHead Limbaugh (who, while a chicken hawk, has not met a woman he would not marry nor a war he would not want YOUR kids to fight and die in, thats how he makes the big bucks and is safe and comfy)If youtube has not yanked it, look up the vidoe “peace, propaganda and the promised land”
Also, jewsnotzionist website, there is another wone, something like Nutrea (?)
[quote=”VictoriaLST”]Wrong again, Maravilla!
When Israel was granted statehood, no one asked Muslims to leave the new country. Muslims pulled out, loudly proclaiming that they would make war, kill all the Jews or drive them into the sea, and extinguish the new state. Radical Islam still holds to that idea. Hamas, the Palestinian radicals, still holds to that idea. Granting even observer state status to a group which proclaims the destruction of a member state as their great purpose is abhorrent. CR should have voted ‘no’ on principle.[/quote]
typical, GOP/Limbaugh brainwashing…….how about I take your house and land, settle a bunch of armed thugs in part of it, who treate you like dirt. I will control your water, air, heat and roads and make you go way out of your way to come and go…routinely, I will make sure you cannto getto work, nor school,etc. I wil continue to treat you like dog poo on my shoe, use force against you and then, my buddies the USA/UK,et al will help enforce this at the UN and via, weapons, black ops,etc. We will bulldoze any and all structures you might have, occupying your land that you and your family bought, worked, lived on-often times for generations and centuries. ALl in the name of a man centered and humanistic ideology-zionism-that has been condemned by stric orthodox jews and liberal ones alike. They state that it supplants the coming of the true Messiah. To top if off, I will recruit blood thiristy Christians that lack any true theological underpinnings and they will continue to call for your enslavement and brutality, in their mis-interpretation of the bible.
SO, then, how would you like this arrangement?
Likely, not…..
[quote=”davidd”][quote=”costaricabill”]No surprise! If the USA voted to give fresh milk to babies, CR would vote against it![/quote]
costa rica bill
it saddens me to say this BUT
because of the years of incompetence and LIES of the U.S. goverment.
I never believe anything at face value anylonger with them. since they always have a hidden agenda.
[b]so yes. if the U.S. decided to give fresh milk to babies[/b]
I would vote against it. :x:x:x[/quote]
With USA’s history of GMO and bullying on food, GMO’s,etc-I would be VERY wary of giving a baby any food/drinks from the USA….
Problem, too, is that too many evangelicals and NeoCatholics do not understand the bible, nor the Fathers,etc at all and hence, think that “israel” belongs to the jews…..hence, with money and weapons, we moved many of them there or allowed them to come and now, they are there. And, running the show…..bound to cause resentment with they control your land, water, roads,services……and have USA/UK to back them…….
and we wonder why “they”, arabs/Muslims, hate “us” and there is conflict.[quote=”elindermuller”]I am from Germany and we have a few such days. However, I am not a traditional person and do not care much about traditional events (only as a child, Christmas gifts were important, off course 8)). If I want to eat a turkey in February, I do so, and if I want to eat Tamales in August, I do so too. I don´t do and buy things just because the calender and the commercials tells me to.[/quote]
amen on commercialism statements….Christmas is big, but shrinking as people move, have families of their own and die off……:( Someday, will just take a cruise or go somewhere…
[quote=”watchdog”]I’m Canadian (Victoria, B.C.), Natuarlized as a Costa Rican (carry two passports) and have lived in Costa Rica for over fourteen years. Any such remarks, or inuendo as you suggest, are, in my opinion, based soley in envy and jealously. In a sense, if you’ve successfully made the move to Costa Rica, or the like, you are living a dream that few of your countrymen are able to achieve, for one reason, or another. It takes “guts” to make the move initially and even more “guts” to make the cultural compromises required to sustain it. If you’ve done it, be proud of yourself and consider yourself lucky enough that you were able to enrich your life with the experience, that many of your disgruntled countrymen wished they could have as well.[/quote]
Well put….envy/jealousy is a part, but the arrogance of, especially in Americans, that there is no better nor more superior place in the world and heck, then, why leave…
