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David – well said and my point exactly! These and other decisions can be made up front, before the contract is signed by way of the client dictating the schedule of allowances that is included in the proposed pricing. That is why it is important to understand that the client needs to enlist the services of a “project manager” before the contract is signed, and preferably during the process of interviewing and selecting the contractor(s).
Stop and think about it – who is the client’s advocate in the process? Answer – no one!
• The builder? Hardly. As you say, the more change orders, the more he makes!
• The architect? No way, he gets paid for putting pen to paper, and the more he has to document and change the plans, the more he makes. Also, once the need for the change order is determined he will usually request payment for a field visit before, during and after the implementation of the change.An experienced project manager can also assist with the architect’s contract as well. They insist that their rates are promulgated by the College of Engineering – and they are! But through negotiation their scope of services can be increased (without additional monies) to include additional responsibilities during the pre-construction, construction, and completion periods.
For most (not all) people moving to Costa Rica and building a new home here they are still living afar and come periodically to check on the progress of the work. Somewhere along the way they begin to realize “I should be here more, or more often – things aren’t going as I expected”. That’s when reality sets in that they have no one on their side, no advocate, no extra set of eyes that is intimately involved and totally understands what the client wants and expects.
After all, for most of us moving here it is not something we do everyday. Fortunately I had over 40 years experience in real estate development, but it was still a rude awakening when the full realization set in that I was building 1,600 miles away, in a different language, in a different measurement system, in a different monetary system, and most importantly (and unfortunately) – a totally different mental attitude!
I spent 3-5 days here during every month of the build, but that wasn’t enough. Over those 40+ years of development I had only one project that was not delivered on time and only one project that went over budget ….. I’m sitting here in that project as I write this!
When friends or potential clients ask me what it cost to build a new home here I usually answer with either of my tired old smart-a** answers, being:
• How long is a string?, or
• Whatever you want it to cost!Either answer is right (albeit admittedly contrite) because literally, you can spend as much or as little as you want, but you are going to get exactly what you pay for.
Before I get into the “meat” of my response, let me say that I only wish I had arrived on the scene and built my home within the same time frame as elindermiller, maravilla or DavidCMurray – or all of the other thousands of expats that preceded me – congratulations to you for arriving before the boom (here) and the bust (up north)!
Now, as elindermuller says [b]“…. the more walls, number of rooms and bathrooms, the more expensive is the house. Big kitchen = higher price. Granite counter tops, high tech appliances, wood ceilings and trims, high ceilings or cathedral ceilings, vinyl window/door frames, imported security doors………..and many more details make a big difference in price.” [/b]
That part of her response follows along with and agrees with my previous post, so obviously I can absolutely agree with her to that extent. But then she goes on to say [b]“When clients ask for building cost by square foot, they want some kind of reference or idea…..” [/b] At this point she begins to contradict her previous statement, and is still agreeing with me because offering a [b]“kind of reference or idea”[/b] really is 100% meaningless unless it includes qualifying statements like:
• “but that all depends on what you expect the builder to include; or,
• “how far you want the builder to go”; or,
• “how extensive a schedule of allowances you want (for pool, landscaping, fixtures (electrical, lighting and plumbing), appliances, etc., and of course, finishes)”; and.
• “where you want to build it, and what condition is the site in?”Without any form of qualification, you can give them an answer of $65.00/sf, $95.00/sf, $120.00/sf, or $300/sf and it means absolutely nothing, zilch, nada!
And, I believe, she truly understands that because she goes on to say [b]“they understand very well that they have to provide a floor plan with details and measurements in order to give them a quote for their project.”[/b] BUT DO THEY, ESPECIALLY THOSE WHO HAVE NEVER BUILT BEFORE?
Her last statement confirms my entire argument and illustrates that the [b]“kind of reference or idea…”[/b] means absolutely nothing without (her words) [b]“a floor plan with details and measurements in order to give them a quote for their project.”[/b]
Duh! I rest my case!
To make it work you must have the basic 3 phases of development:
• Conceptual plan
• Schematic drawings – and price check (estimate)
• Construction drawings (even better with mutually agreed upon specifications) – and final price confirmation for contractYou can call them whatever you want, but in the real world, this is what it boils down to! If you do it this way you will have fewer change orders and less headache!
Yes, you can build for $85/sf, or $110/sf – it is up to you. And guess what – you could end up with exactly the same result – size, quality, finishes, etc. – all because of the way it is measured!
It just baffles me how you guys can continue to discuss and compare “price per square foot” or “price per square meter” without any agreement on the defined scope of work that is expected to be received by the purchaser and what the builder is anticipating that he must deliver.
It just makes no sense to me at all.
First of all, are both the buyer and builder on the same page when it comes to the method of measurement?
What if the buyer is expecting the costs per square foot to be determined on the North American “standard” of measurement (i.e., the enclosed living area within the exterior walls).
Versus
The builder using the Costa Rican “typical” method of measurement which includes everything under the roof line (exterior areas under the eaves, the garage and/or carport, the covered patios and covered porches, etc.) – basically the “shadow line” at high noon…..The difference in the denominator (hence the resulting price per square foot) could be 20% or more!
The builder knows what he can deliver for $110/sf based on his expected scope of work and his method of measurement – but what if the buyer thinks only the inside living area is used as the denominator in the formula to arrive at “cost/sf”.
And, what if (in the buyer’s mind only) he expects that the scope of work includes the water well, and the ICE connection, plus the extra structural work because the lot is on a 40% slope, and he is expecting cana brava ceilings and teak beams at 18’ high in the main living area (where the teak floors are part of the deal) with coffered ceilings and concealed cove lighting in all of the bedrooms with Hunter ceiling fans throughout, high-end Moen plumbing fixtures in the kitchen and baths, air throughout the house, a jacuzzi in the master bath, etc., etc.
Sure, most of these things should be considered extreme, but to some buyers they may be expected, and unless they are all discussed and agreed upon as “included” or “not included” then neither the buyer or the builder will know what the finished product and price will be.
I am not saying that either the buyer or the builder is right – all I am saying is that both the buyer and builder must be on the same page when it comes to the scope of work and quantity/quality of electrical, plumbing fixtures, etc., whether or not allowances are included for things like appliances (kitchen, air conditioning (and/or heating), hot water heater(s), lighting, electrical fixtures, plumbing fixtures, floors, doors, windows, built-in furniture, etc., etc.
Without an understanding and an agreement on these and dozens of other items, you have a recipe for a perfect misunderstanding!
I have had clients start with an expectation of $150/sf end up spending well over $200/sf based solely on the location and their expectations – at no fault of the builder. We spent well over that, but I got what I wanted and expected, including 15kw diesel generator, teak ceilings throughout, infinity pool, bamboo and imported stone floors, central A/C units, top of the line security system, extensive landscaping and irrigation systems, fabulous kitchen (my wife of 42 years deserved it), infra-red sound and entertainment system in every room, etc. But there was never a surprise because we defined the scope of work and knew what to expect.
I’ve managed the work for clients that have spent $90/sf and those that have spent over $300/sf – but each and everyone knew what they were going to get for their money – and what the method of measurement was – BEFORE the work started! We spent hours and hours discussing the scope in advance, before meeting with the builder. Then we sat with the builder to make sure he understood what we expected the scope, and the price, to include.
My only contention is that if you randomly throw out “$110/sf seems high” or “$110/sf is about what I expected” without any agreement on the measurement or scope – then there are a lot of arguments (and possible attorney fees) on the horizon.
Let me offer just a few of the dozens and dozens of questions that can impact the costs and must be answered before you can say “Oh, $110 per square foot is about right!”:
• What is the builder’s fee and what are the requirements for the builder’s general conditions – is local labor available or does he have to import the labor and have additional costs for bodegas, housing, meals, etc.
• Is the lot finish graded and ready to build on?
• What are the characteristics of the property to be built on (terrain and subsurface conditions)?
• Will either the terrain or the structural design dictate the need for retention walls or beefed up structural columns?
• What are the structural components? Is it designed to withstand seismic activity? To what degree?
• What is the height of the interior walls? Are they block, metal stud, wood framed?
• What is the ceiling material? Are there special ceiling design or treatments?
• Is there a pool? What type, size, finish???
• Are their terraces, patios, decks? How many, what size, how finished???
• Is there a fence? How many meters are included, what is the design and material?
• What are the on-site and off-site electrical requirements (how far are you from the closest transformer or power supply)?
• Is municipal water available or do you have to drill a well?
• Do you need onsite domestic water storage and pressurized water system?
• What are the septic requirements?
• Storm water requirements – how do you protect your property from surrounding runoff and get the water off of your property without impacting downstream properties?The answers to each of those questions (and over 100 more on my preliminary list) generate more and more questions – all related to the scope of work ……. AND THE PRICE!
[quote=”sprite”]I have lived in Miami for the last 30 years. The firs 5 years were enjoyable as a novelty. But the oppressive heat became a negative. Initially, I intended to settle on the CR pacific coast until I visited there and realized that the cooler mountains were more comfortable. I am 62 now and I crave comfort over the adventure of living with humodity, heat and lots of bugs.[/quote]
So please tell us – where do you live now…… in the mountains, near the coast, in CR, in USA …. all we know for sure is that it is NOT a gated neighborhood!
And, by the way – even though we are at the beach in the oppressive heat, bugs and humidity – you are a welcome guest at any time! The beer is cold and I have 6 A/C units with almost 20 tons that will keep you at a comfy level of 85 degrees or less! I am sure we could have some wonderful late night conversations as we watch FOX News in A/C comfort!
We use the A/c units very rarely, but the reason we have so many is because it “zones” the house and guest house – – – and (unfortunately) because the CR mechanical engineers used the wrong input for their calculations, using 4″ exterior block rather than 8″ exterior block.
Unfortunately I did not discover that until well after the installation started, but fortunately we have not experienced any electric bills that we consider “excessive” recognizing the number of guests. family and friends, etc! Most of them are from Texas or Florida and enjoy our cool nights and pleasant breeze …… by the way, my patio thermometer is currently reading 76 degrees!
And by the way, in the main house we have 4 Carrier central units – and 2 of them have less than 10 hours on them after 3 and a half years! The other 2 have less than a 100 hours, even with the 6 grand kids visiting twice a year!
So, from an A/C standpoint, and a gated house standpoint I am ready for the criticism – – but that is the how it happened. We are inside a community of 8 lots and we have no control over what and how the other 7 “partners” decide to do. They have been partners for over 30 years, so I have very little influence with them having only purchased out property 9 years ago!
THE LAST WORD – we are here, we love it and wouldn’t change a thing, especially our weather!
[quote=”sprite”]The optimum temperature range for human comfort does not exceed 85 degrees. This is not the beach. The beach is a great place to visit, briefly, but I would not want to live there.[/quote]
That being the case, tHen there is a substantial portion of the world’s population living above “the optimum temperature range”. As mediatica says, “the beach is not for everyone” but there are a whole lot of us that enjoy living at the beach, even with the heat and humidity. It all depends on who you are, where you came from and what you are used to. Being from Houston and living 23 years in Tampa, I don’t find 85 degrees uncomfortable at all
So tell me Spite, what is the “optimum range” on the lower end? And exactly how do you determine the optimum range for the rest of us?
[quote=”vmc”]Hi Dori and everyone….
Dori, the rookie mistake I spoke about was not having a credit card…..Made renting a car a tough proposition, but Mapache took care of us, and tho we had to tie up $900, we got it done……I returned the car yesterday.
Which brings me to the NEXT subject…..We have MOVED. We found that while we LOVED being at the beach, the conditions were just too primitive for us, the inability to escape the heat was a big one. The house, while beautiful by Tico standards had NO WINDOWS…just large openings with a heavy mesh that stopped any air-flow, so the heat was miserable, especially at night. And the places where the mesh was torn made way to a constant flow of BUGS, we had to hide everything in the fridge, that is, until the fridge died on us….we lost a bunch of food and had no way to keep ANYTHING cold.
So what did we do about it? Well, we got lucky there and now we have MOVED. We found a really nice house above Puriscal for less money and one with REAL windows and stuff….no need for A/C, because it just doesn’t get that dang hot….LOL
NEXT came BN (Banco Nacional) and their money-keeping ATM…we lost $500 to it the other day that we just couldn’t afford to lose. Not to worry, others have had this same problem, it seems the ATM’s run out of money and the system isn’t sophisticated enough to NOT deduct from your account if you don’t get money..LOL? Tomorrow (Monday) we’re taking an interpreter and going to the bank and make them review their security tapes and review the ATM accounting…..we’ll probably get our money back tomorrow…..we hope.
It’s a beautiful place with the most incredible views you can imagine. We have a pool and jacuzzi and NOW we have found our home.
I wish I could post pictures here, but if you want, you can find me on Facebook and see what we have been up to so far.
Chapter ONE is still being written….more to follow.
Let me know if you want to find us on Facebook and I will be glad to help and accept any friend requests!
Pura Vida![/quote]
Seems like “Chapter ONE” is over, after roughly 2 weeks on the beach. No more heat, no more bugs, no more LOLA’S! I’ll say this for you – you’re a fast mover, literally!
Did you actually move to the house at Playa Negra without ever seeing it? Or spending time on the beach? Or experiencing the heat – or bugs?
I know it is a slightly different climate there than we have here in Samara, and we are back a few hundred meters and up 150 meters so the breeze (more) and bugs (less) are different, but still, if you are going to live “on or at the beach” in the tropics, you have to expect and accept the heat, humidity, etc. of being close to the ocean.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the cooler weather in the mountains as well, as long as those mountains are in the tropics![quote=”DavidCMurray”]The term, “Realtor”, has become so ubiquitous that it is effectively a generic synonym for “real estate agent”. Just as “Jello” refers to all gelatin desserts and “Kleenex” is used for all facial tissue, “Realtor” is a catchall phrase to designate anyone who sells real estate.
In Costa Rica, a “Realtor” (whether a member of the U.S. National Association of Realtors or not) cannot maintain his or her licensure simply because there is no such licensure. Licensure in a U.S. state is meaningless.
Likewise, in Costa Rica there is no requirement for ongoing professional education and there is no code of ethics to which to adhere. Why? It’s because there is no Costa Rican National Association of Realtors that has any influence.
This is a meaningless discussion because it has no significance in this setting. Let’s drop this and get back to conjecturing about how many fairies (or Realtors, if you like) can dance on the head of a pin.
[/quote]
David, sorry but much umbrage!
“Realtor” – accurately described in your post; HOWEVER, after years as a licensed real estate [u][i][b]broker[/b][/i][/u] in Texas, Florida and Georgia, and keeping up with all of the continuing education requirements attendant thereto, (but NEVER being a licensed “Realtor” – which is a designation generally most sought after and accorded to those real estate professionals associated with residential, versus commercial, real estate professionals who are willing to PAY for the designation.)
I was almost certain that when I got my 90-day stamp from immigration I had achieved REALTOR status!
Now my spirit is broken and I feel inadequate to continue with my vocational dream!
there are non-denominational Bible-study groups that exists in many areas, even in small communities. Often, these groups can be more rewarding than attending a church service.
[quote=”2bncr”]Scott,
Con todo respeto, change happens one person at a time. That excuse about convincing everybody else to do it before you do is frankly quite well you fill in the blank, and by the way beneath you.
American European no longer uses Realtor in their advertising to refer to sales agents.
If you do work with Realtors than why don’t you promote that. Tell us who are the members of the NAR and what sets them apart and why if we have the option we should chose a licensed Realtor.
Scott if everybody picked their noses in public, would you too pick your nose. Of course not. Do what is right not what is easy, especially when correcting a mistake like this one is so simple..
Also siting other people errors is no justification to continue yours in my opinion. Its an excuse but not a valid reason.
And yes there are many competent sales agents… and I am sure your associates are among them, but no matter their competency if they are not licensed Realtors they are not Realtors. That fact does NOT make them incompetent. It does reveal that they have not sworn to abide by the NAR ethical behavior. Nothing more and nothing less as well as being licensed in the US to practice real estate sales. That is no small thing for someone selling real estate here. That means they have actually studied real estate practice and passed an exam and are in good standing with their licensing.
You have to have studied, passed an exam, be licensed and be up to date with continuing education to be a realtor. Its no small thing.
So why would you minimize that work by referring to unlicensed sales agents as Realtors even if the vast majority of sales agents in Costa Rica are unlicensed. And before you retort I stipulate that licensing is no guarantee of honesty or hard work but it does demonstrate an advanced level of study and understanding.
Its really a matter of authenticity and integrity… and I see you as authentic and integral in your work, so why not be consistent.
[/quote]
Well, there went one of his cemetery plots!
Dan – I would definitely recommend Santa Cruz for your shopping spree. There are several stores thatere that sell the household appliance items that you mention – and they will be MUCH less than DO IT Center or similar stores in or near Tamarindo.
I’m beginning to wonder how nuch research you did before the move…
did you not know that the house had [i]”no AC or windows”[/i]?
[i]a car for $2,000[/i]?? I suggest that you hire a wrecker to follow you on the test drive!
[i]
“it’s about to cool off here” [/i]- I presume you were talking about getting dark, because May is perhaps the hottest, muggiest month of the year![i]”It doesn’t get as hot there as everywhere else, we never needed the A/C”[/i] – what are friends for if not to give you consistently accurate information? Speaking of consistent, you should be aware that at approximately 10 degrees above the equator, the weather in coastal areas around the globe is pretty much consistent, and it’s hot!
[i]”we may just stay here till our lease is up and seek higher ground.”[/i] – wow – second guessing your decision after only 3 days!
Get your appliances, go to Lola’s, enjoy your new life and chill out. You are living in a little bit of paradise – enjoy it!
It appears that ehe fine for not paying the corporate tax is 50 colones per day for active corporations and 25 colones for inactive ones.
It is also important to keep in mind that if you have not paid the tax, you cannot get personerias juridicas from the National Registry, so doing any business that involves the corporation would be difficult if not impossible.
La Esquina de Buenos Aires, downtown San Jose – one of the best steak houses I have ever been to – NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, Miami, Houston, Tampa…..where ever!!! This place is GREAT – the food, the wines, the atmosphere are tops!!! Reservations are a must. http://www.laesquinadebuenosaires.com/
Well, by all appearances – barring any last minute changes, today is the day that Dan & family arrive in Costa Rica.
He is probably on the plane as I write this. If so, I am sure that flight will take on the character of a “party bus”.
In his enthusiasm I just hope he remembers to stop at immigration and get checked in! Playa Negra will never be the same!!!
WELCOME DAN – TAKE TIME TO ENJOY ALL THAT YOUR NEW COUNTRY HAS TO OFFER!
