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[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Imxploring”]Taxes are one thing. This is INSURANCE… a product… a service which is based on risk.[/quote]
Well, yes and no. All government services are paid for by different people at different rates. Military, fire and police services aren’t paid for strictly based on risk either, and I don’t see why government should apportion medical service costs any differently. If government provided aid were strictly based on risk then the folks on the gulf coast and in tornado alley would pay a lot more for FEMA then they do. And children and old people would pay taxes at higher rates rather than lower ones (or in the case of children, none at all).I hear you thinking, “But children can’t pay taxes because they have no income to do so”. Congratulations, you’ve just proved that you believe in taxation based on ability to pay.[/quote]
Is your current health insurance in Chi-Town based on a percentage of your income? How about your auto insurance or your renters insurance? I’m guessing they’re not.
As to your FEMA statement. As I currently have a policy on one of my homes with them I can tell you it certainly based on risk. There are charts that provide for different ratings and associated premiums. Higher risk area… higher cost… better coverage… higher cost. And it has nothing to do with income.
What we are talking about is a product (personal health insurance)… not a public service like schools, police, or fire protection. Using your logic I’ll soon be faced with an income differential charge when I go food shopping in CR! LOL
Even Obamacare in the US is not based on income for those exceeding the subsidies levels (lower income individuals and families). A person making $1,000,000/ year is not charged more than a person making $100,000!
Next we’ll discuss the fairness of people being able to disclose only a portion of their income and subsequently pay a lower rate for CAJA as compared to someone that must disclose their total income because of the way their retirement income is structured and pay a much higher rate for the very same service, even when both folks have the same total retirement income. I suspect you fall into the former… but that’s a discussion for another time.
[quote=”waggoner41″][quote=”Imxploring”] If I’m not mistaken you obtained your residency prior to the new rules being put in place. Can you confirm that? I know the ARCR use to have a pretty good deal for CAJA participation prior to the change in the law as well but I don’t believe that is available any longer either.[/quote]
We applied for residency in August 2008 and I finally obtained my cedula in September 2009. However, I was able to join CAJA in April 2009.
I have what I have and am satisfied with it.[quote=”Imxploring”] Some up to date current info on what residency applicants are being charged NOW for CAJA would be very helpful. I have a big problem paying a precentage of my income for a service (insurance) which is not normally based on such. My home, auto, health, and life insurance premiums are based on risk…. not on how much I earn. If CR is basing it on a percentage of income I see it as a tax… so let’s call it what it is! At least then we’d get the foreign tax credit on our US tax returns![/quote]
Since it is government provided program I have always seen the charge for CAJA as a tax. My income is not so high that I need to worry about nickel and diming on my tax return. In addition I did not move to Costa Rica to enrich myself. I moved here to enjoy the beautiful country and the temperament of the locals.
However, I don’t see it as based on income because what we pay is all over the board compared to income. It seems to be based on some incomprehensible arbitrary decisions made by the CAJA itself. While my cost is just under 6% of income my wife is paying 3% of her income.
The Tico living in house is seeing his employer paying more for his CAJA too so it appears to be the normal result of inflation.
I have no idea whether new residents are paying more for their CAJA than we did when we arrived. I’m sure that some of the more recent residents will be willing to share what percentage of income CAJA is charging them. We will have to wait for their input.[quote=”Imxploring”] And for folks that think you’ve beaten the system by only declaring the minimum needed for residency (for example just your SS income) and not included other income sources (such as a pension) you can bet the next step CR will take is requesting your US tax return information. [/quote]
I claimed all of my income, my pension as well as our Social Security, even though it exceeded the required $1,000 by multiples and I am willing to provide Costa Rica with my tax returns if they ask for them. If you are so worried about the cost you should forget about the CAJA and purchase private insurance.
[quote=”Imxploring”] Don’t think for a minute it can’t happen. The information agreements that Uncle Sam forced on the world’s governments to collect taxes and find out what you have and where will become a two way information exchange with CR and any country you’re residing in wanting to know just how much you earn in total…. and they will seek their share! Even if Uncle Sam doesn’t provide it to CR, how many folks will be comfortable being told they must provide tax return information on total income as part of a residency application or renewal?
The last thing I am going to do is worry about what policies any idiot government is going to enact.
[quote=”Imxploring”] I see this CAJA issue as the start of a bigger problem. Opinions welcomed![/quote]
1 – If your income is so high that you need to worry about what you pay in taxes you certainly don’t need the benefit of the lower cost of living here.
2 – Spending your time worrying about what the government may do is a waste of time and not good for your health.
3 – If you can’t enjoy Costa Rica on the basis of what we have here don’t live here.
[/quote]Sorry if I stuck a nerve that was not my intention. I am sorry if I have done so.
You apparently were able to obtain residency under the old rules and as such are not currently being fleeced to the degree that current applicants are. No doubt the increases you have been hit with are a slow attempt to equalize that difference since they seem to well exceed the current rate of inflation. This should concern you unless you feel your time horizon on this planet will expire prior to the increases having a serious effect on your ability to survive in a reasonable lifestyle.
Just a few point in reply to your posting.
1- My attraction to Costa Rica is much more than a lower cost of living since I have the ability (A blessing) to maintain homes in a few nice places. The lower lost of living is pretty far down my list of priorities.
Taxes are one thing. This is INSURANCE… a product… a service which is based on risk. To base the premiums on a percentage of income is not fair nor normal. And the arbitrary ability of applicants to only disclose part of their income to lower their premium makes it even more unfair and unreasonable. For those that will compare the CAJA that CR citizens participate in and SS/Medicare which are based on income, it’s not the same both SOCIAL programs offer many other benefits to participants. They are medical, disability, and retirement plans with covered health insurance in retirement without premium. What expats are currently being ask to pay for as part of residency is health insurance period.
We should all be concerned no matter where we live as to what government does with our money.To ignore such attempts by government to unreasonably tax us would be the actions of a fool and goes against the very concept of the founding of America and what is fair and reasonable.
2- NOT spending time watching what government does is a BIGGER waste of time and MUCH worse for your health. To simply become one of the sheep to be herded by government has resulted in much larger problems all over the world. And as much as you think they don’t or won’t effect you…. they may very well! Ignorance is bliss. But at some point a big wake up results.
3- Enjoyment and being fleeced as a money tree are two entirely different things. We all enjoy our freedoms until they are slowly eroded and taken away. Much the same can be said of our assets. Governments are getting quite desperate to fuel the society they created with the entitlement class. If you simply roll over and give in without question or action you have no one to blame when they come calling for you.
[quote=”waggoner41″][quote=”costaricafinca”]My husband has just returned from paying our CAJA at the local office and it went up this month by $7, so [i]possibly [/i]all of us, citizens and expats alike, will see the payments rise. Others who have also affiliated on their own, directly with CAJA, have also reported $8 and $10 a month increase[/quote]
Like everything else we are seeing inflation in CAJA. The wife’s went from 16,000 to 23,000 and mine went from 42,000 to 49,000.[/quote]
A 43% increase in your wife’s case is a tab more than “inflation”…. even in Costa Rica! Something else is in play here and you might want to be a bit less accepting and try to find out what is going on before this gets worse.
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”costaricafinca”]..his second payment had risen by 17%.[/quote]
Wasn’t he given a reason as to why the assessment had increased? And do changes on CAJA asssessments occur on a fixed schedule, i.e., every January or do they happen at random times of the year?
[/quote]It seems not much with this mandatory CAJA participation is written in stone. The rates people pay seem to vary on a case to case basis. And it looks like expats are being hit with some rather large increases…. far above that which CR citizens are being asked to pay. And it seems there is no clear information provided by the government for folks considering applying for residency. To go through the trouble and the expense of applying only to be hit with a major tax clothed as “insurance” makes no sense to me! The advantages to residency are far out weighed by the cost, at least in my case and opinion.
While I saw the ability to join CAJA (for basic medical care) if you wished under the former residency laws as a positive (it was at a reasonable rate)…. I see the new rules as a BIG negative and will not be doing so as a pensioner or investor.
There needs to be some clarification and reasonableness applied to this situation. I’m not looking for the good folks running the CR government to start treating me like a money tree… that game has already been tried and I’m not playing.
[quote=”waggoner41″][quote=”costaricafinca”]Scott, do you know what percentage someone, who has applied as an Investor, by way of purchasing a house would be?[/quote]
Although I could have qualified as an investor I chose to become a pensioner.
What I pay into CAJA is still under 6% of my income. Although I can not quote rates I do know that private insurance is much more expensive.We have been totally satisfied with CAJA hospitalization and services.[/quote]
If I’m not mistaken you obtained your residency prior to the new rules being put in place. Can you confirm that? I know the ARCR use to have a pretty good deal for CAJA participation prior to the change in the law as well but I don’t believe that is available any longer either.
Some up to date current info on what residency applicants are being charged NOW for CAJA would be very helpful. I have a big problem paying a precentage of my income for a service (insurance) which is not normally based on such. My home, auto, health, and life insurance premiums are based on risk…. not on how much I earn. If CR is basing it on a percentage of income I see it as a tax… so let’s call it what it is! At least then we’d get the foreign tax credit on our US tax returns!
And for folks that think you’ve beaten the system by only declaring the minimum needed for residency (for example just your SS income) and not included other income sources (such as a pension) you can bet the next step CR will take is requesting your US tax return information. Don’t think for a minute it can’t happen. The information agreements that Uncle Sam forced on the world’s governments to collect taxes and find out what you have and where will become a two way information exchange with CR and any country you’re residing in wanting to know just how much you earn in total…. and they will seek their share! Even if Uncle Sam doesn’t provide it to CR, how many folks will be comfortable being told they must provide tax return information on total income as part of a residency application or renewal?
I see this CAJA issue as the start of a bigger problem. Opinions welcomed!
[quote=”costaricafinca”]Last year the fees also went up, and this year it [i]seems[/i] to have risen 17% of the declared ‘income’ according to other posted increases.[/quote]
It makes you wonder if residency is really worth it! I had original planned on applying when I retired and wanted to spend more time in CR. After the recent change of REQUIRED CAJA enrollment and the subsequent 10% (approx) monthly fee of declared retirement income, I’d be foolish to do so. The cost would cover a lot of trips back to the states as well as other travel.
I’m lucky enough to have paid health insurance in the US. I might consider an international major medical plan for time spent in CR and pay minor medical needs out of pocket. Does anyone have any experience with international plans? Cost and coverage in CR is what I’m interested in.
Once government gets their hand in your pocket… it never comes out…. it only goes deeper!
The new requirement of CAJA enrollment for expats seeking residency takes on a whole new meaning. Besides the apparent approximately 10% charge on your declared pension income for CAJA it seems your retirement income (which for many is fixed) will now be eaten away by possible annual CAJA increases.
This CAJA issue is becoming a real game changer!
Perhaps we’re screwing ourselves by letting the secret out. Forget everything I said…. Jaco is the place to be… trust me you’ll love it! 😉 LOL
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Imxploring”]The point is that should CR see a new president elected that is able to make major policy shifts to the current direction of the country by taking advantage of a black swan event we might all be in for some unwelcome changes. [/quote]
OK, I’ll buy that – but that applies to ANY president of ANY political persuasion.[quote=”Imxploring”]Hugo told his people for years that the US was on the verge of attacking Venezuela while he did the same thing. [/quote]
Which they were more than willing to believe due to the long sad history of US meddling in South and Central America, not to mention the attempted US overthrow of Castro during the Bay of Pigs fiasco.[quote=”Imxploring”]Cigarette smoking is a larger danger to the health, welfare, and safety of the American people than terrorism ever was… and yet the governments (Fed,State,and Local) all are distracting you with terrorism fears while profiting from the sale of a product that kills people every day![/quote]
So you’ll be voting Democrat now since Dems are in favor of tighter regulation of tobacco and less intrusive NSA activity?[quote=”Imxploring”]While youth maybe an advantage in your mind Steve….![/quote]
I think you misread my comment. I said that it was Villalta’s youth that I considered a good reason [b]NOT[/b] to vote for him.[/quote]Hugo was a master at manipulation. Playing the “boogy man” is out to get us is popular with a lot of the political types.
I vote for people, not parties. Shame is that my view currently is anyone running for office these days is either delusional or a liar… or as is often the case… BOTH!
Hey Steve, sorry I did misread your view on youth! I guess we agree there!
Another vote for the Lake Arenal area. All the same reasons listed above…. plus… the best pizza in all of Costa Rica! Try Moya’s Place on the corner across from the gas station. Great food, location, and people. The whole town (be it very small) is wonderful.
The views are fantastic and the lake is a big plus. You need to understand that the reason the area is so green and lush is because we get rain. Once you get that clear in your mind the many positives outweigh the wet stuff that falls.
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”Imxploring”]Hitler didn’t wake up one morning as the Fuhrer…killing millions and ravaging Europe… the good folks of Germany elected him. [/quote]
The good people of Germany weren’t all that good (and I say that as someone of German descent myself). Most of them shared his utter hatred of Jews and fully believed that Jews were responsible for Germany’s loss in WWI and the worldwide depression. Hitler’s odious attitudes on race and determination to wield power as a dictator were on full display well before he won election as chancellor. He was NO wolf in sheep’s clothing. Germans wanted a dictator and they got one.[quote=”Imxploring”]As for the sky falling… perhaps not today… but it might be worth having an umbrella ready just in case.[/quote]
Nothing wrong with being prudent. But I find it odd that you automatically assume any leftist politician is a possible dictator but don’t seem to feel the same about any who is on the right side of the spectrum. Dictators come in all shapes and sizes.[quote=”Imxploring”]No one in the US would have DREAMED of giving up the rights that were taken away by the Patriot Act post to 9/11, nor allow the wholesale spying the NSA is conducting on the American people![/quote]
A comment which proves the point I just made above. Was it a socialist dictator who pushed through the Patriot Act or was it a couple of guys named Bush and Cheney?[/quote]The point is that should CR see a new president elected that is able to make major policy shifts to the current direction of the country by taking advantage of a black swan event we might all be in for some unwelcome changes. Those changes might very well impact your stay or even your ability to relocate to CR.
Hitler played on people’s distrust and dissatisfaction with their economy and spun it up to create a following. The jews were one of many targets he distracted his people with while he advanced his real agenda. He used the same “I’m protecting you” line when he disarmed his population and slowly removed their rights and the institutions that would have restrained his power. Hugo told his people for years that the US was on the verge of attacking Venezuela while he did the same thing. An attack that never came. But creating the “bad guy” that he was protecting the people from gave him the cover he needed to advance his agenda.
We’re seeing the same thing in the US as we are now giving up our freedom, liberty, and rights all to protect us from terrorist! Consider this…. More people died last month from cigarette smoking than ALL the people that have EVER died in the US from the acts of terrorist… yet you can buy a pack of cigarettes on every corner. And to boot…. the same government so intent on protecting us is making the majority of the profit on every pack of cigarettes sold! Cigarette smoking is a larger danger to the health, welfare, and safety of the American people than terrorism ever was… and yet the governments (Fed,State,and Local) all are distracting you with terrorism fears while profiting from the sale of a product that kills people every day!
Since a good amount of CR’s economy is dependent on the US… should there be a major economic meltdown worldwide it would be easy for a president in CR to place the blame on the US (can’t say I’d disagree with all the Fed is doing that will ultimately have worldwide consequences) and make expats an easy target and the victim of changes in policy. We’ve already witnessed some taxation changes that have impacted expats more than others.
While youth maybe an advantage in your mind Steve…. the problem that I see is that much of today’s youth are quite uneducated when it comes to history. And as we know, if you don’t learn from history you are doomed to repeat it!
[quote=”sweikert925″]I’m not quite sure what I have to be careful about. The Costa Ricans will pick a new president and whom they do is solely their business.
My goodness! This Villalta chap isn’t even in office yet and you already have him turning into a combination of Stalin and Mao (but with less charm), singlehandedly turning Costa Rica into another North Korea and having himself declared dictator for life. Tranquilo mi amigo!
His policies from what I have read don’t seem all that different than any other left-leaning politician. And as I KEEP having to point out he can only do what he can convince a majority of the Costa Rican legislature to sign off on.
[url=http://www.ticotimes.net/More-news/News-Briefs/Candidate-Villalta-says-nationalization-is-not-part-of-his-plan-for-Costa-Rica_Thursday-December-05-2013]Here[/url] are some of the ideas he has in mind. Doesn’t seem all that scary to me. I certainly hope he does something about electricity rates and better infrastructure (assuming he is even elected) and happy to see that those issues are being discussed by the candidates, but we shall see.
What is it with conservatives that they are always in hair-on-fire mode about some impending catastrophe? Sharia law! Death panels! One world government! Black helicopters! They’re acomin’ fer our guns! War on Christmas! Marxist-Fascist-Communist-Muslim-Kenyan in the White House! Fluoridated water! It’s a little hard to take seriously people who keep insisting that the sky is falling when the sky never seems to actually get around to falling.[/quote]
The problem is they never show their true colors or intentions when they’re attempting to get elected. We can only judge them on their past and the ideology they’ve chosen to expose. History shows us that many madman and dictators were, at one time…. elected… elected by the people. Hitler didn’t wake up one morning as the Fuhrer…killing millions and ravaging Europe… the good folks of Germany elected him. And history shows us what he did then. Hugo pulled the same game. Once in power you look to eliminate the checks and balances that exist to keep you from taking complete control. Daniel is doing the same in a softer way up north having found that the hard-line program didn’t work.
While I don’t fear a complete shift in CR in the near term, there are always concerns that during trying times that leaders step forward with promises used to get elected that result in changes that no one foresees. Should we see a hard line Socialist elected and then a major financial collapse in the world economy (I feel that’s a real possibility, but that’s a topic for another thread) you might very well see a major change in CR. No one in the US would have DREAMED of giving up the rights that were taken away by the Patriot Act post to 9/11, nor allow the wholesale spying the NSA is conducting on the American people!
Sure… lower electric rates and better roads…. sounds wonderful… what could be wrong with that! So did all those photo ops with Hitler surrounded by children and kissing babies. But how many people did he ultimately send to their deaths? How much pain and destruction did he cause? Look at Venezuela right now and see what Hugo’s actions did to their country and it’s economy!
WE THE PEOPLE have to be diligent in our watch over those we chose to govern our society. Even as an Expat in CR you need to be aware of the possible changes that will impact your life, livelihood, and future.
As for the sky falling… perhaps not today… but it might be worth having an umbrella ready just in case.
[quote=”sweikert925″][quote=”costaricabill”]Sweikert – if Villalta does win and he does turn out to be a communist or a socialist, would you still plan on moving here?[/quote]
Of course! For one thing he can’t do much harm if he doesn’t also have support of a majority of the Costa Rican legislature (which seems unlikely) and for another he will be out of office by the time I get there.Would you leave if he did?[/quote]
Be careful Steve…. not that I see it happening in CR, but the same assumptions were made by a lot of people in Venezuela when Hugo took over and was “elected”. Then the institutions that restrained and limited his power were disbanded or eviscerated allowing him to take total control. Granted he had oil money and an army to make his move. We see where that has now taken Venezuela…. it’s a mess! Zelaya in Honduras tried the same stunt but the folks there learned from what happened in Venezuela and took action.
Change can happen quickly when things get bad. This next election in CR is an important one for many of us. It may very well set the path if we start to see CR shift more to a socialist “Communism Lite” where foreigners and those with assets are looked at as cash cows and milked to fuel the programs promised to the underclass.
You may very well live a long time once you relocate to CR…. major shifts over time WILL impact you.
[quote=”sweikert925″]You are to be commended, Victoria, for keeping an open mind on this subject.
Almost all contractual disputes are complicated but this one is even more so than usual. Infinito did sign an agreement with the government of CR, but that contract has now been adjudicated fully by the highest court in CR. According to CR law, that is the end of it. Since the agreement was signed, Costa Rica has passed a law (as of 2010) banning the type of open pit mining that Infinito was originally granted a concession for. Does that bear on the case? Maybe.
Infinito isn’t suing in a CR court, they are bringing a case before a body called the [url=https://icsid.worldbank.org/ICSID/FrontServlet]International Centre for Settlement of Investment Disputes[/url], which is as I understand it an offshoot of the World Bank. So an entirely different set of laws apply than was the case when this was purely a Costa Rican contractual dispute.
One other intresting wrinkle to this: In American law (specifically the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act]Foreign Corrupt Practices Act[/url]), if a contract was not negotiated in good faith – such as for instance if bribery was involved – then the contract can be nullified, no matter what the terms of the contract state. [url=http://www.cba.org/CBA/PracticeLink/12-09-bc/PrintHTML.aspx?DocId=40077]Canada has a version of that law too[/url] which may be relevant if Infinito is a Canadian registered company. There are also UN and multilateral treaties concerning corruption that establish that same legal framework and therefore [b]may or may not[/b] also come into play when the ICSID hears this case.
Bizarrely, it may actually be in Costa Rica’s interest to furnish proof that bribery was involved in granting the original concession to Infinto as a way to evade any legal judgment against them.[/quote]
Perhaps they can call Don Oscar as a witness to have him explain it all! I’m sure he can explain how open pit mining and the chemical process of gold ore extraction is an environmentally friendly process and in the best interest of the good people of Costa Rica! Hence the reason he agreed with the concession in the first place!
Nothing more than another politician that sold out! Hopefully if this suit goes forward (not hoping it does) they can call Don Oscar on the carpet for this and other conduct during his term.
[quote=”VictoriaLST”]I support the gold mining company. They had a legal contract. CR has a huge nation debt and resources in gold. The government can set up its own rules for reclamation and reforestation of the land when the gold mining is completed.[/quote]
A contract is a contract true Victoria… but when a company (a made up entity with no physical presence) is able to simple declare bankruptcy, disappear, and walk away from an environmental disaster we have a problem. Gold mining is a dirty, expensive, and environmentally unfriendly undertaking. All too often these companies do NOT honor their contracts when the reclamation is required… it’s expensive and isn’t producing income. They simply walk away or declare bankruptcy leaving the government or landowner holding the bag.
A small fish like Costa Rica would be an attractive target for such a company and scheme since the cost to pursue a claim against the company, should they default on reclamation, would be prohibitive and likely recovery by CR would be slim at best. But by then whatever gold is gone and the environmental mess is all that is left. Just look at all the “Super Fund” sites in the US that the government is stuck with cleaning up after companies do their thing, make a mess, take their profits, and disappear!
This is most likely why CR rethought the deal and is currently in this legal battle, the good news is with lower gold prices the company might be less likely to pursue this issue. Interesting point is the last legal battle Infinito had over a cancelled mine deal was in Venezuela… interesting parallel. BTW…. They lost!
Since the environmental problems with gold mining are well documented one must wonder why the original contract was even signed by the leader of a country that prides itself as being so environmentally friendly. Perhaps some oil or grease was involved? LOL
Long live Don Oscar…. sold out to the Chinese…. sold out to the mining companies!!!! How Nobel! I’m sure he’s enjoying a “healthy” retirement.
