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Sprite, that is just the response I was hoping you would have because you do not seem to get it, unless it’s applied to you. Maligning a WHOLE culture just because there are a few jerks is uncalled for…Of course there is corruption in CR, just like there is corruption in the US (and as many have stated on this forum, and for those that insist on grading, unfortunately the US suffers all sorts of small, medium and gigantuan sized corruption), but that will NEVER mean that every US citizen nor that its entire culture embraces corruption as YOU have insisted about Costa Ricans…I’m glad you were offended, you should have been and so should any Tico/Latino reading your post. If you don’t believe me, next time you enter CR Immigration, take a print out of your words and let them know that you think CR is a land of officials who are looking for bribes from tourists because that’s just part of their culture and that you’re willing to comply since you feel that “when in Rome, you choose to do as the Romans do…” Let us know how they feel about your perception of their cultural views on corruption….No one likes to have generalized accusations thrown at them so act as you wish, but don’t then rationalize your behavior by throwing those kinds of stones at CR and therefore saying that this is JUST how things are in CR!
You insist on maligning a whole country and this may well be a sad case of projection on your part. The point, you insolent, arrogant, condescending, pseudo-communist gringo, is that THE MAJORITY OF COSTA RICANS ARE NOT CORRUPT AND DO NOT PROMOTE CORRUPTION IN THEIR COUNTRY!!! So YOU may well be a Roman looking for ‘Rome’ in CR, but it is NOT the Costa Rican way of life and you should stop confusing the two. My family has lived there for over 3 decades, I have plenty of friends there and none of us have had to resort to paying any bribes to anyone in order to live, work, buy homes or vehicles, get an education or travel from Corcovado National Park to Caño Negro and anywhere in between in spite of them carrying Tico papers and me carrying a US Passport! How many Ticos/as do you know that you feel you’re now an authority on how INEVITABLY CORRUPT ALL Costa Ricans are since it’s cultural according to you? Even doing so while you think that their corruption is ‘not so bad’ in the scheme of things…How long have you known that country and it’s people to NOW make you believe that you are the ultimate word on what is ultimately customary in Costa Rica to have the lack of insight to say that crooked cops are just part of living there? There is obviously a problem with some corrupt traffic officers, but this is NOT the GENERAL sense of things in CR.
BTW, corruption stinks no matter where it festers, let a little rot go unchecked and see how that will grow and damage whatever it comes in contact with…Corruption is something that affects ALL cultures and thankfully, not all people within those cultures accept it so that we don’t all choose to promote it because in the end it will always come back to bite us one way or another…
Go ahead, keep making this about how others are trying to impose their values on CR while ignoring the huge elephant in the room which is that you keep trying to rationalize your own ideas and promotion of corruption (as long as it’s ‘small’ enough) in a country by blaming it on a whole country’s values rather than just taking responsibility for your own actions and accepting that those crooked CR individuals are NOT 100% representative of ALL Costa Ricans!
The point is that CR is not rampant with police officers taking bribes, not yet that is and so you are taking something that is being done by a group of very specific people and painting everyone in that culture with their bias which allows them to feel entitled to do this and feel that it’s okay to make some ‘bonus pay’ by politely asking the tourists to comply with their request for a bribe…You are over generalizing and that doesn’t typically bring in understanding about a culture…This is NOT cultural, this is a personal issue that plagues people in power allover the world.
Sure, there are things that are black and white (example: I don’t EVER want my daughter or anyone else to be tortured.), but you’re right that most things fall into shades of gray so that a bribe requested politely might not seem like such a bad thing. Well, it’s not like they’re going to kill you if you don’t give it so in the scheme of things, they certainly are polite extortionists, but extortionists they still are (according to dictionary: Someone who illegally uses of one’s official position or powers to obtain property, funds, or patronage..).
The laws in a country tend to be a reflection of the cultural mores of those people. If you don’t believe me try showing some explicit affection like kissing in public in some countries (even some States in the US have some pretty funky kissing related laws about mustaches and all…) and see where that lands you. I’m sure that it doesn’t mean that they don’t ever kiss, but that those laws are representative that they don’t approve of displays of public affection and so we should abide by their rules in order to enjoy our stay. In CR it is ILLEGAL for a police officer/traffic official to request a bribe in lieu of him/her doing their job so this is definitely NOT something that this culture finds acceptable. It also doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen, but that’s why there are laws to try to dissuade people from practicing this selfish and not very good use of their taxpayers’ money. CR is paying those officers to do a job not to have a ‘side business’ and may I remind you that this was similar to what many of Batista’s policemen were accused of doing in Cuba. In some case, those ‘crooked Cuban police officers’ were even less (in shades of gray) menacing since they just took the parking meter money and kept it for themselves which certainly didn’t entail quietly intimidating a tourist by virtue of them wearing a uniform and being armed…So yes, there are shades of gray, but we all know which side of the scale they fall on and it by no means requires fanatism, intolerance on my part or any high horses involved. You will continue to do as you do and I will do the same, we’re both expressing the reasons as to why we choose the way we do and we can all be civil unless you start blaming theirs, mine or your shortcomings on being from a particular culture. A lot of different things go into every decision we make, some are individually based (or biased) and others are more collectively so…
Just imagine, if a grade school teacher needs to step outside for a minute, she asks one of her students to stand in front of the class and monitor his classmates and she asks the remaining students to continue individually working on their assignment. Who thinks it’s appropriate that he should see a classmate not abiding by the rules and offer to charge him a fee to BUY (extort) his silence? Do I think he should just tell his teacher (black & white scenario)? No, I would hope that he would actually just talk to his classmate and tell him that he needs to work individually or he will otherwise have to report him. Most of us do well with a warning, sometimes we loose sight of the big picture and a warning is all it takes to make us behave appropriately. By the way, just because those traffic officers engage in this type of behavior doesn’t automatically make them monsters, but they are acting inappropriately & illegally and I would hope that most people wouldn’t give in and that this behavior will be that of a few and not become the norm in CR because that would be a real shame…
You’re full of nonesense trying to rationalize your own behavior by blaming it on a cultural bias. Yes, values are influenced by culture and Latinos put family before government many times, but I don’t know any Latinos or Ticos that would be okay with the bribe situation we have been discussing. Deal with your own cognitive dissonance without putting the blame in another culture or their ideas.
Who knows how many years they will live, do you? No matter how many years I do live, I prefer to enjoy and live those years I’m blessed with on this earth not being condescending to other cultures just to explain away my own shortcomings or peculiar views on justice/fairness/legality…
Considering the polarization of wealth throughout the world and how many people barely make enough to fulfill their family’s basic needs, I guess any thief (be they uniformed or not) can take up your arguments too…Yet I can’t think of one person on this forum or in CR (Tico or not) that would welcome and support being robbed/burglarized/mugged you pick the situation!
Not to mention the obvious, that we do things based on our OWN biases (cultural and otherwise) not another person’s or culture…
Edited on Feb 01, 2008 07:40
Now this is rich, coming from you Sprite and here I thought you actually liked Ticos! There is nothing ‘culturally’ acceptable about taking bribes in CR or it wouldn’t be against their laws. Does having ‘patas’ (knowing the right people) help you get things done there, yes, and it’s just about the same everywhere else in the world or else why would networking be so important in business? Please DO NOT malign a whole legal system or people just because there are some crooked cops and scared tourists that don’t know how Ticos are or rationalizing people like yourself that figure it’s just best to play this bribe game than to step up and legally pay the piper if you have committed a traffic infraction.
Costa Rica does NOT suffer from the type of police corruption that has plagued Mexico, Dominican Republic and other places at times. And I can say that I certainly did not experience any of it while I was in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico as everyone was quite a pleasure to deal with. I’ve never been to Dominican Republic, but I have certainly heard horror stories about much more ‘forceful’ traffic police demanding bribes and it doesn’t make me very enthusiastic about visiting the DR. Who knows, maybe it truly isn’t so there either, but that reputation tends to keep tourists inside of their compounds and me from visiting since I prefer to travel outside of those facilities. I don’t know what you think your ‘charitable contributions’ will afford CR, but I assure you that it won’t be what supports a good reputation.
I don’t know if I would refuse to pay a ‘police requested bribe’ everywhere else in the world as I easily do in CR. I guess if I feared for my life or some further retribution, I would pay because my life is worth that and much more, but I have known Ticos for long enough (almost 3 decades now) to know that this is NOT the case in CR. Again, you can choose to rationalize anything you wish, but there are values regarding fairness that even children can recognize at a very early age and that have NOTHING to do with cultural Tico values. That argument about those bribes being culturally driven was just ridiculous and offensive, especially coming from a non-Latino or maybe you just think that all Latinos, including Ticos, are crooks or our definition of fairness is somehow different than that of those held by Euro/US born people?
One thing is for sure, I’m immensely glad to see that most of the post writers have refused to pay and found the same type of response from the police, a non-violent one which is how most Ticos choose to express themselves. That said, if you ever feel that you’re in danger because you just happen to meet the exceptional traffic cop that appears deranged, please follow your instincts, comply and then make sure you tell the authorities to help keep CR thoroughfares safe for all…Pura Vida!
May I suggest you rent a cell phone (check this site for a contact on this and some car rental places & hotels also provide this service)while you’re there…It can really help if you do get into any kind of trouble. I have been traveling from one end of CR to the other for decades and have never had any trouble with people on the road. The people that stopped to help whenever I was in trouble were doing just that. Unfortunately, there have been some recent schemes which take advantage of tourists, but it sure seems as though they are the exception and not the norm. I would also suggest that you have a contact person that you keep in touch while on your journey. When on Costa Rican highways, even when traveling alone, I worry more about people ‘rayando’ passing you or driving on the wrong side of the road to pass someone else which has been known to cause quite a few accidents.
In spite of CR looking like paradise, you just need to use your common sense and know that there are always those looking to take advantage of those that seem like easy prey anywhere in the world. Enjoy your trip…
Just so we’re clear on this, I was informed by a regular policemen and that they don’t enforce traffic laws and the traffic cops don’t enforce anything other than traffic laws. They’re 2 distinct groups in CR which do not get involved in each other’s functions. So Sprite, if you’re looking for the traffic cops to keep you safe from anything else other than another motorist’s actions, then you’re ‘contributing’ your charity unwisely…
I agree that all the police branches should be paid more and also probably be better educated (all around), but any of us can certainly find more charitable ways to help those that are actually trying to do their jobs rather than support those looking to make an easy & illegal buck off of a tourist leaving CR’s name and ethics in the gutter.
Not all traffic cops are crooked in CR and it’s a pity that the acceptance of this type of behavior will induce the wrong kind of people to wear this uniform…
According to the posts, it seems that the road to Jaco has notoriously been plagued by this so I will make a denuncia and talk with an OIJ official from Heredia that I know, maybe he can get someone to look into this (being as those traffic cops are breaking the laws). I know that not all Ticos traffic cops are crooks and I’m glad to hear from these posts that most of you don’t think/act as if this is acceptable behavior…Rationalizing things will not make them right…The moment you refuse to give in to the bribe, they would identify themselves via the ticket they give you so you could most definitely ‘tell on them’ and they will gracefully bow out of that scenario…
A bribe is not a ‘contribution’ to having a more ethical society…Although I admit it can be much less time consuming than having to abide by the law. I guess that everyone has to decide if their time is so incredibly valuable that you’re willing to promote corruption in order to earn some convenience. So now the bribe is $20, but what kind of society do you want to foment in CR after all? When this becomes ‘el pan de cada dia’ (an everyday occurrence throughout the country) and the bribes aren’t that reasonable priced and police aren’t that polite about it, who should we blame for that?
This is not a ‘recent’ occurrence, but it certainly has become a more frequent one lately. Many years ago a policeman in Coronado stopped me as I was heading towards IICA. He suggested that I pay him and be done with it, save myself the hassle sort of speak. Policemen on the take are never a fun or a happy event, but Costa Ricans are not typically violent and so when I very politely refused to give him any money and requested that he give me the ticket if he felt I had committed a traffic infraction (which would inevitably have his id on it), he politely told me to be on my way and remember to watch my speed.
If you would like to make a formal complaint, the Ministerio de Seguridad Publica (Ministry of Public Security–police) can be emailed with a:
Denuncia (report an illegal act), Queja (complaint), Sugestion (suggestion) or Solicitud (request)
Paumatom: What an interesting idea you’ve brought up: “I think it was more a case that politicians of that time were still capable, on occasion, of acting for the good of the country, rather than for the good of their party or their own re-election.”
I don’t put much faith in Hillary, Obama, Romney or McCain, but I also think that this unfortunate turn of events where politicians don’t seem to really care at all about our well being (just want to look like they do care), not even on occasion, has been a change that has been allowed and accepted by us. Do you think this change in our politicians’ behavior could have taken hold without our tacit acceptance?
Alfred, I don’t doubt that you have made a difference in another’s life, kindness has an incredibly long reaching arm and I have long believed in Emerson’s philosophy on a successful life:
“To laugh often and much, to win the respect of intelligent people and the affection of children, to earn the appreciation of honest critics and endure the betrayal of false friends, to appreciate beauty, to find the best in others, to leave the world a bit better, whether by a healthy child, a garden patch… to know even one life has breathed easier because you have lived. This is to have succeeded!”
I do hope you will consider that governmental officials, no matter what party affiliation, have rarely made important (although, thankfully, some have) and wonderful differences in how we think, belief and act, that’s usually been the great honor and responsibility of people that chose to care and just refused to accept the status quo…Just as you can think of a million mistakes that liberals have made, others can point out another batch of conservative mistakes. You might also check into why the Iranians chose to release the hostages only after Reagan had been elected when they had expressed interest in doing so before the election…Also ask yourself why that particular administration later found itself in a major mess called Iran-Contra Affair and start to connect the dots. Power corrupts and you know the rest…In the end, our ability to make a difference may be because we are not ‘powerful’ by most economic or political standards, but in the most important things, the ability to change ourselves and the ability to make a difference for another — we certainly have a lot of power and with that also responsibility to live consciously and not just accept being put on mindless treadmill for any reason…
By your own admission, you certainly have stopped acting within the US. I’d like to take up two very important biological issues that you’ve brought up. One, about our genetic makeup, our biology DOESN’T determine our destiny–otherwise every identical twin would be the exact replica of the other in every behavior and even in appearance and that’s just not the case. Two, that human animals when faced with adversity not only fight or take flight, they also “tend and befriend” Something mostly practiced and recognized by women, but that it took scientific data to make believers out of men…No matter where you are or how dire things get, you can always stretch your hand out in assistance and with compassion…
Sprite, Has it occurred to you that you may be seeing less “good” people because you’re actually just seeing less “good” acts? Frustration and apathy can paralyze anyone. That said, people have an amazing ability not only to change themselves, but the world around them…It’s not so much (although there are exceptions) about people being a fixed good or bad, the choices we make and the repercussions those choices have (intended or not) from the time we wake to the time we lay our heads defines our contributions each day.
If Costa Rica gives you hope, then I hope with all my heart that you are able to move there real soon, but remember that in the end every human (anywhere, including CR) has faults, we all buy into selfish motives now and again and that doesn’t have to make us hopeless or any less deserving of respect and dignity…Life is a struggle and filled with suffering for sure, but isn’t it wonderful when you meet people that just remind you that Life is also good? I’m glad that meeting Costa Ricans gives you a different take on people, I know that they have been immensely important to me too….Pura Vida…
Change is inevitable, sometimes it’s painful and this one is certainly going to be at the very least uncomfortable in many ways, but it CAN also spur on changes that are meaningful and head us in the right direction as human beings. It’s all about the choices we all make and I’m glad that not everyone on the site feels that the changes that are currently being felt and in store for the US should become the new spectator sport around the world….
Alfred, thank you for your kind words, but I want you to be sure that what I do does not ever mean any self sacrifice on my part, I do it because it’s part of who I am. Anyone who volunteers on a regular basis knows that these activities bring us great joy and profoundly feed our souls, it’s not about recognition nor partisan politics, it’s about our own personal politics about justice, about people and about Life. Everyone can choose to help and it will never mean anything but part of living to us, not sacrifice.
The gloating I hear in various places over the “deserved” demise of a country makes me very uncomfortable. The recognition I see around the world that changes are needed and inevitable in unsustainable ways of life gives me hope. I do believe that there will be people that will step up to the plate and not only choose to hope, but choose to work towards the ideals they hope to live by within the US or anywhere else, not only now, but when (if) things get really ugly…
Speaking of morality, Gandhi said it best when he said, “you must be the change you wish to see in the world.” If you do nothing but whine, what ethical right do you have to complain about the results once all is said and done?
You know, you may well be right and the country (as we’ve known it) will no longer be–Some of that can actually become incredibly good news if you ask me…Besides, I have to respect people that are willing to stop whining and do something about it rather than sit on the sidelines and enjoy the carnage–even when you don’t agree with their take basic take on things. Sure, we must first identify what’s wrong (done that by a zillion people), but then it’s pretty pitiful if we just bitch and moan instead of actually doing something…A lot easier to criticize than to make a difference by changing, at the very least, any of your own behaviors that have supported this out of control treadmill that’s been the mainstay of the way of life in the US…The unsustainable US lifestyle may have reached it’s inevitable end, but it’s people still deserve, like everywhere else, to live with respect and dignity which is one of the scarcest commodity as of late…
