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[quote=”rcpoppell”]Having just read the new article sent in the newsletter, I have to wonder: who hires a “private eye” and what does it cost? I would love to read some 1st hand accounts of people that needed one.[/quote]
There is one gringo firm here and they charge $300 per day plus expenses. You could hire an OIJ guy on his days off but they too charge $300 plus expenses and in my experience were simply incompetent (they askd for information from a neighbour who then told the person being watched!) I tried another tico guy who charges only $150 per day but he lied about his work hours and then took an advance payment for a “special” service and then promptly disappeared – in sumamry I should have gone with the gringos, the Ticos will give you very poor service and tell you whatever they think you want to hear, and lie to you, and steal your money, but that’s true generally here. I find that mans word is rarely his bond here. in fact it’s quite the opposite.
[quote=”Imxploring”]simondg…
Take a step back from your situation a moment… perhaps you might not like what Lotus is saying… and he and I haven’t always agreed in the past. But as much as you (and countless others involved in Paragon investments) might want to find a solution I too think it’s a bit bigger than all of us.
This scam…. yes let’s call it what it was… will be winding it’s way through the CR and US courts for a decade… and even then there will be legal challenges that will pop up from the players that will make it drag on longer. And that’s got to run it’s course before you can even think about now getting folks together, come to agreement and finance the cost to finish the infrastructure to add any real value to these developments. And where might the money come from to do that? If this was an issue with limited players you might have a better chance… but there are a few thousand… not only the poor folks that invested… but banks… vendors… workers… contractors… and government agencies!
I’m one who likes the challenge of bringing people together and resolving issues others thought were unsolvable, but this mess would require too much time, money, and resolve from too many people with a multitude of angles that it’s better you look at it as a lesson learned.
I do however wish you luck should you’re out of body experience not deter you from chasing this endeavor![/quote]
I’m sure the guy who started this post appreciates your support – it seems none of you give a damn about this mans attempt to try to do something. Certainly in Lotus’s case it’s more important that he win the argument or prove that I’m wrong at whatever the cost is to this mans conviction to try to do something.
As regards your legal expertise assertions that the legal case has to run it’s course for ten years before anything can be done well it seems we now have another armchair expert with all the answers but none of the experience. Why don’t you and lotus open a consultancy offering your non binding legal opinions for people in CR? You’re all such experts on every aspect of this case it’s astounding. From Lotus’s “my twenty years in real estate” high horse to your litigation expertise we realy are spolit for choice as to which expert to follow!
I don’t and have never claimed to know the facts and I don’t know if my suggestion can work but the attitude of some in this forum is frankly astounding. Let’s not forget that lotus is the same guy that called me a “fool” for recommending gold to the readers of this forum when it was trading at $700…perhaps you should follow his advice instead. He has a way of drawing out the mob to support him but as we know the mob is an ass.
[quote=”*Lotus”]Simon doesn’t like any one to express an opinion other than his own. I am skeptical of your solution to the “Paragon” problem and as others have pointed out your defense of them on many other threads. I think they stink. Based on what I know about Costa Rica( I am a property owner there) and 20+ years in Real Estate, I am doubtful anyone can clean up the Paragon mess and make it whole. That’s just my opinion and last time I checked I’m entitled to one. Time will tell…
Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. Life is short, consider it a lesson learned. You will have to assess the situation yourself and decide if it is worth your time and money to pursue this. Either way I would not decide my position based on information provided on a public web forum.
Scott thank you, the expression of course is sincere.
finca: I thought via a Google search more buyers would have discovered this site as there has been so much Paragon stuff posted here.[/quote]
You know I really take exception to your defeatist attitude. You have no development experience in CR, no experience of raising capital internationally, liquidation experience, tunraround experience, no coordination experience of dealing wiht international investors using Trust companies and Trasnfer agents, and have no first hand experience of the CR legal system, (oh please correct me if I am wrong) yet you presume to tell these people it’s not going to work.
I went through the Master Plan process and it was satisfactorily completed at the height of the bubble in the busy Santa Cruz office in one year for a cost of a little over $100,000.
[quote=”*Lotus”]I’m a fairly optimistic person, but simon you give a whole new meaning to the word. I guess it’s my 21 years working in real estate in Manhattan that causes me to scratch my head….
Organizing hundreds of people through out the world to come together and complete these projects is in my opinion very unrealistic. I know developers in Costa Rica, just managing a small project and getting through the bureaucratic web of permitting is a nightmare when you are on the up and up and well funded.
I could see a new entity stepping in, either any lenders involved or if via bankruptcy an experienced group of investors/developers buying whats left through a “fire sale” and start things up again. Again the main problem will be navigating the CR bureaucratic system and most likely by the time they get this all figured out you’ll long be retired.:(
Considering that according to Paragon they have sold hundreds of parcels of land, it’s strange we only see a handful of people on here complaining? My guess is that these were not very sophisticated well funded buyers.They scraped together the initial $5000 to put down and believed the pitch it would be worth twice what they paid in 5 years and they could subdivide their lot, sell half and pay off their total note. They were scammed. I had seen these Paragon pitches for years but felt pretty certain this was a questionable operation. Just a quick look at all their silly animated presentations, maps and gates that lead no where was enough to keep me away. That said at one point when Gale was coming on here all the time, I thought why wouldn’t they build out, they had millions of dollars from sales and labor is the cheapest part of the equation down there.
“Get the lawyers in Miami to make a deal to take control of everything – I am not saying drop the case against them simply force this issue first. If they dont respond surely any court would rule agaisnt them in their abscence. Thereafter claimaints prove their payments made to date and land is assigned. Unless they have sold more land than there is available (this would be blatant fraud and I doubt they made this mistake, although it could be) this should go smoothly.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if things worked so “smoothly” in Costa Rica…
Best of luck to all of you either way you proceed![/quote]
Well that’s it folks, Lotus has spoken and he seems to know everything there is to know. He tells us what a nightmare it is to get the permits without knowing whether they are already in place for these projects! Then he tells us that he can see this working if a new developer comes in and buys each project at a firesale price. So Lotus’s best idea is that you all sell to some wealthy group of speculators for 10 cents on the dollar! If there any any takers for this one please let us know…!! (or did you mean somethig else?)
Lotus, in reading your tag I have to ask, when you breathe in, exactly what are you inhaling?
[quote=”maravilla”]some people don’t google anything, and then there are those victims who were threatened with libel suits if they said one word against paragon; how many of those people are there? i still find it hard to believe that anyone would give those people money.[/quote]
Ahh, more helpful advice for the gentleman who started this post…thanks again maravilla.
[quote=”*Lotus”]Simon doesn’t like any one to express an opinion other than his own. I am skeptical of your solution to the “Paragon” problem and as others have pointed out your defense of them on many other threads. I think they stink. Based on what I know about Costa Rica( I am a property owner there) and 20+ years in Real Estate, I am doubtful anyone can clean up the Paragon mess and make it whole. That’s just my opinion and last time I checked I’m entitled to one. Time will tell…
Sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on. Life is short, consider it a lesson learned. You will have to assess the situation yourself and decide if it is worth your time and money to pursue this. Either way I would not decide my position based on information provided on a public web forum.
Scott thank you, the expression of course is sincere.
finca: I thought via a Google search more buyers would have discovered this site as there has been so much Paragon stuff posted here.[/quote]
Ahh, how touching, Scott came to your aid. How, in the same post where an investor is reaching out to others, could the line, “if only things worked so smoothly in Costa Rica” be considered a sincere comment? Contrary to your assertion that I don’t like anyone having an opinion but my own, I only get annoyed when someone assumes to know what they couldnt possibly know…and you do it constantly.
[quote=”*Lotus”]I’m a fairly optimistic person, but simon you give a whole new meaning to the word. I guess it’s my 21 years working in real estate in Manhattan that causes me to scratch my head….
Organizing hundreds of people through out the world to come together and complete these projects is in my opinion very unrealistic. I know developers in Costa Rica, just managing a small project and getting through the bureaucratic web of permitting is a nightmare when you are on the up and up and well funded.
I could see a new entity stepping in, either any lenders involved or if via bankruptcy an experienced group of investors/developers buying whats left through a “fire sale” and start things up again. Again the main problem will be navigating the CR bureaucratic system and most likely by the time they get this all figured out you’ll long be retired.:(
Considering that according to Paragon they have sold hundreds of parcels of land, it’s strange we only see a handful of people on here complaining? My guess is that these were not very sophisticated well funded buyers.They scraped together the initial $5000 to put down and believed the pitch it would be worth twice what they paid in 5 years and they could subdivide their lot, sell half and pay off their total note. They were scammed. I had seen these Paragon pitches for years but felt pretty certain this was a questionable operation. Just a quick look at all their silly animated presentations, maps and gates that lead no where was enough to keep me away. That said at one point when Gale was coming on here all the time, I thought why wouldn’t they build out, they had millions of dollars from sales and labor is the cheapest part of the equation down there.
“Get the lawyers in Miami to make a deal to take control of everything – I am not saying drop the case against them simply force this issue first. If they dont respond surely any court would rule agaisnt them in their abscence. Thereafter claimaints prove their payments made to date and land is assigned. Unless they have sold more land than there is available (this would be blatant fraud and I doubt they made this mistake, although it could be) this should go smoothly.”
Wouldn’t it be nice if things worked so “smoothly” in Costa Rica…
Best of luck to all of you either way you proceed![/quote]
Your last two lines with their facetcious tone and the sarcastic exclamation mark say more about you than I could. Paragon investors are advised to treat Lotus’s post with the contempt it deserves.
I wrote a lengthy response to this which unfortunately got wiped out due to the system in use in this forum but I will try to write again when I have time.
In the meantime do not allow the comments of someone without experience in this matter to stop you from trying to salvage this situation.
[quote=”dgrende”]Is there anyone else out there who has the deed to their lot in Paragon Properties abandoned Playa Del Sol development? I am trying to find out how many deed holders there are and possibly unite everyone in this development to seek solutions to the lack of infrastructure, mainly roads at this point. Obviously if we can work together we stand a better chance of coming up with a solution to our problem than working individually. Please respond to this thread and we can go from there. Thanks.[/quote]
hmmm…intersting idea….wouldnt it better though to follow Maravilla’s advice and give up…do nothing…be negative and generally undermine any effort to find a solution?
Seriously though I think if the Paragon people could get rid of this problem they would, therefore the first step should be to simply ask for all the paperwork, all the Master Plan info, and ask them to hand over any outstanding title including the main holding company papers for each project. A liquidator needs to be appoointed to establish how much each person has paid and what is owing on each piece. If a firm like Deloitte (my accountants) were overseeing everything, if the title were secured and if a leading construction firm were contracted to do the work, who would not, having already invested some money, proceed to pay up what remains in order to finish the project? In addition, why would the people who have paid in full not add a few thousand to have this done – I think they would.
Get the lawyers in Miami to make a deal to take control of everything – I am not saying drop the case against them simply force this issue first. If they dont respond surely any court would rule agaisnt them in their abscence. Thereafter claimaints prove their payments made to date and land is assigned. Unless they have sold more land than there is available (this would be blatant fraud and I doubt they made this mistake, although it could be) this should go smoothly.
[quote=”ymontagne”]My husband and I have been seriously considering moving to either Costa Rica or Panama and have visited at least twice a year for the last 8 years.
During all of our visits we try to talk to as many expats as possible. Last time, while visiting Dominical/Uvita, we really noticed that it didn’t appear that many people who move to the area last more than 2 or 3 years. Wrong impression?
Would love to hear some thoughts around how many individuals actually make it beyond a couple of years.[/quote]
When your bank costs you $150,000 due to their own incompetence and then coludes agaisnt you and your lawyer tells you that although you have a good case (that could be won in most countries) it isn’t worth pursuing in this country because the regulatory authority will not award you anything, then you start to understand. In effect he was saying that Sugef will not do anything to hurt their friends -great system!
On the other hand I never met a cop I couldnt bribe to get out of speeding ticket (until the other day – I think he thought I was setting him up). This part of the corruption works perfectly since the cops are highly motivated to do their job and they get to make sorely needed income that would otherwise be wasted by some buaurcrat.
[quote=”lurker”]simon
I have seen your comments on the Paragon dicsussions and you are always defending these people so I am guessing you worked for them at one time.
Five YEARS ago Paragon was promising peopel in writing that infrastructure would be in place within 18 months.
Never happened in any of their projects.
You probably saw that Bill Gales boss man Stephen Tashman has a 100% track record.
100% of the DOZENS of different companies he has started have gone bankrupt.
Is anyone surprised that this has happened again?
So tell me why you are always defending these people.
They are thieves![/quote]
Promising? Or they put it in writing? There seems to be a lot of ambiguity with this point which is why I have consistently asked for clarity from buyers. Without this in writing they have no legal recourse. If you only want to rant we will be non the wiser, I prefer to know the facts.
As regards supporting the owners of this company you seem to be selective in your analysis since to my knowledge I am the only one proposing a solution. You on the other hand state the obvious and offer nothing by way of support to the buyers.
[quote=”sally”]Looks like Paragon Properties of Costa Rica website http://www.paracr.com/ is now officially out of service, what a shame we can’t say the same thing about the people involved.[/quote]
How hard could it be in this situation to take control of the properties? If they are free and clear then all the invesotrs have something of value. By their own admission, many people have not paid the full amount for the plots and therefore there is money owing. The price paid per square meter at $12 doesnt seem that outragous even without infrastructure. By appointing one of the country’s leading law firms to administer this these peole would have a real shot at completing the projects at probably less than half what it would have cost some two years ago and wihout anyone paying more than the original agreed amount (if the payments due were settled).
Surely if all owners could agree then people who paid deposits could be given an amount of land that proportionatley represents the amount they put in and they could be asked to pay the full amount which would then be applied to the infrastructure work to be done.
At this point simply going for venegence is probably not going to get satisfaction for any holders. If the properties have Master Plans then much of the important work is already done and these assets have value. It seems to me that no one is really intersted in finding a solution – most seem to want to vent and throw these guys in jail. Maybe that’s what they deserve but it won’t give you your piece of paradise.
Make a deal with the best law firm. Have a reputable firm handle the building work and finish the projects. The Head of the Construction Chamber could be hired to oversee everything if he would take the work. Jaime Molina is his name.
The first step is forming an investors website – in my opinion this situation can be resolved to everyones satisfaction (although of course I don’t have all the facts). Out of some 1,500 people is there not one who will try?
[quote=”maravilla”]hey, waggoner, that’s not MY quote. someone else cribbed a part of my post and then added THAT comment, but i would never say that! jejeje and you are correct — if not for those hand-outs we’d be paying $11 a gallon for gas as they do in Britain. and what about what we pay in CR — more than double what it costs in colorado right now.[/quote]
You seem to be in favour of the fake market your Government created. The reality is though that my point is probably not that accurate either since oil prices are set in the middle east and not in the U.S. But I find your comments in favour of execution quite disturbing, joking or not.
I wonder what the total is that has been paid out to the petroleum industry with our tax money through the federal government to keep those prices low.
I would bet that in total we have paid European prices when you include those handouts.[/quote]To be honest I idea how much has been paid in subsidies, do you? But if you are correct and your Government has interfered in the free market it is they who would be to blame for making a false market that then encouraged people to drive Hummers etc…(possibly the most tasteless car in the world).
[quote=”maravilla”]this will really put you over the top. big business and greed are antithetical to the welfare of the inhabitants on Earth.
at least in China, they will execute the executives of companies who commit the most heinous crimes of damaging the environment. hmmmmmmm. how about stuffing that Hayward guy headfirst into that well?VBS.TV
http://www.vbs.tv[/quote%5DSure why not execute the people that took all the financial risks to enable the American economy to function with lower gas prices for decades? Without offshore drilling I wonder what the price of gasonline would have been over the last twenty years?
[quote=”*Lotus”]If you search this site you will find many posters who stated infrastructure would be completed 18 months from contract date. This is one reason they built out two model homes two years ago, they planned to complete the infrastructure. I occasionally looked at their website which bragged about the progress of said infrastructure. Of course it was also pointed out this was just silly, 18 months from which contract? the first, 5oth?
Whether you believe, as Simon does that you (possibly) got what you signed up for(buyer beware) or like many others, you got taken; you are screwed. Class action is probably a waste of time I agree. Taking over the projects with a bunch of folks who bought via a lot of bs promises and a high pressure sales force working out of Florida and completing these train wrecks, doubtful. A rock and a hard place sounds just about right.[/quote]
Lotus – So these people should just give up? If the buyers no longer like the state of the real estate market today and, like some of the banks here on other projects (Sonasty Jaco One), they decide not to complete their payments, then yes there is no way it will happen. If the project land is free and clear and the owners can take control are they not in a better postion than they are now?
I don’t have all the details but if they have five projects that should equate to around 300 clients per property. If they only put in another $10k each they could a lot done in each project with $3m – it goes a long way in this market. Simply being negative because of the sales tactics employed some two years ago is frankly not helpful.
