[waggoner41]

For those believe the original post and who are too old, too tired or too little time to do a little research the following will enlighten regarding the original post.

Since EUTimes web site seems to be the only outlet that is carrying this story I would tend to read it with a grain of salt. The conservative sites in the U.S. are not even mentioning it.

Getting into the meat of the story we read that Brookfield Office Properties, the company that owns the property, announced on August 25th that it was offering $200 million in preferred stock which just happens to coincide with the claim that the Obama administration has given the company that exact amount.
[url=http://www.brookfieldofficeproperties.com/content/2011_news_releases/brookfield_office_properties_to_issue_c200_millio-29285.html]Brookfield Office Properties to Issue C$200 Million of Preferred Shares[/url]

Further claims that Obama has received more Wall Street money than any other American politician over the past 20 years does not hold up to the facts filed with the FEC.
[url=http://www.fec.gov/disclosurep/pnational.do ]2008 & 2012 Presidential Campaign Finance [/url]

Repeating the already debunked the trash story, from the right wing CNS News Service out of Canada, that Obama has added more debt to America then all US Presidents combined from George Washington through George H.W. Bush. In point of fact, researching the [url=http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_debt_chart.html]debt to GDP history[/url] I find that the only administrations since WW II through George W. Bush’s last budget in 2009 which increased the debt to GDP were Ronald Reagan (20%), George H.W. Bush (15%) and George W. Bush (27%). In case no one remembers, the debt to GDP stood at 122% in 1946 and was reduced by an average of 2 1/2% every year until 1981.

The same tired and debunked inferences from the American conservatives are repeated through the rest of the story

[waggoner41]

[quote=”maravilla”]after looking at some videos of this kind of construction (adobe) it could be a great form of construction for costa rica.[/quote]

Have you ever seen adobe after it has been subject to rain over time?

[img][/img][img]http://farm1.static.flickr.com/114/292490828_e449adc8d2.jpg[/img]

Just funnion’ you Maravilla. Actually a well maintained adobe can last forever.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”aguirrewar”] If you want to know about taxes in Costa Rica and how it will affect you, I highly advise you to read anything Randall Zamora writes.[/quote]

Zamora will tell you how the tax situation is for the individual but I have yet to see him discuss the plight the Costa Rican government is in or present any ideas regarding fixing the problem.

He knows how taxes are structured now and I am talking about how to correct the situation for the future.

You can take the attitude that you dont care if Costa Rica falls down around your head or you can decide that our participation along with that of the Rico Ticos would go far to making a difference.

I own a property on which the taxes tripled with the luxury property tax and I dont mind paying it if it goes to improve conditions here. If it goes into the pockets of the politicos I have a great deal of resentment.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”Imxploring”]Since it was a system I was FORCED into I feel I am entitled…to the return I was promised! It’s not just an insurance (death/disability) program. It’s a base retirement program.[/quote]

You can read the Social Security Act in it’s entirety at
[url=http://www.ssa.gov/history/35act.html]The Social Security Act (Act of August 14, 1935) [H. R. 7260][/url]

The preamble to the act is this:

[b]An act to provide for the general welfare by establishing a system of Federal old-age benefits, and by enabling the several States to make more adequate provision for aged persons, blind persons, dependent and crippled children, maternal and child welfare, public health, and the administration of their unemployment compensation laws; to establish a Social Security Board; to raise revenue; and for other purposes.[/b]

We all know that the government services in Costa Rica are severely underfunded so the question that I raise is this: Are we here to enjoy our retirement or are we here to watch Costa Rica crumble before our eyes.

I, for one, am willing to pay a tax on my untaxed income to see improvement. I would rather not see what I came here to enjoy disolve into a pile of crud. There are many improvements being made in my area which enhance our life here but they come slowly as the government can afford them.

Since you dont live here you can take an attitude of indifference. I do live here and see things in a different way.

If you haven’t noticed, things in the U.S. have been going downhill for the past three decades. It is just in the past ten years that the downhill run has been picking up speed. The current federal income tax rates are at the l;owest percentage of income since 1932 and still people complain that they are overtaxed.

You are facing the same situation that we find here. The system of taxation favors the wealthy and largest corporations and needs to be revamped.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”maravilla”] all women should stay home, cater to their man, stay pregnant, and in the kitchen? that was only a “traditional” value because it was what MEN imposed on WOMEN!! It wasn’t what women, for the most part, chose for themselves[/quote]

The Costa Rican society has been very much a macho society but the number of younger women who want to be able to work outside the home or are refusing to stick with a man who beats and dominates them is rising and they are leaving the marriage.

I told the young lady who works for us that a revolution is coming here as it did in the States in the 1960’s. Upheaval is coming and the Ticos are going to be at a loss as to what to do.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”aguirrewar”]I agree with waggoner;

I pay property taxes and part is for the Library; which I never use, another part goes to the school district when my kids graduated 10 years ago.[/quote]
The property taxes that we pay to support libraries and schools are necessary to educate the generations that follow us and although the internet is probably displacing the libraries in many ways they are still the primary source of reading material.

[quote=”aguirrewar”]The tax system is unbalanced and needs a major overhaul. When Warren Buffett pays less taxes than his secretary (diferent brakets) you know something is not right.[/quote]

Having researched economics and the economic history of the U.S. for more than 45 years I can tell you that there is no argument against this statement. The progressive tax system is still the fairest there is when taxation is evenly balanced between the wealthy and the rest of us.

Congress has created so many loopholes in individual income and corporate taxes that are available only to the wealthy or big business that the distribution of wealth is moving ever upward. In 2007 the average wealth accumulation of the wealthiest 2% was rising by 27% per year while the middle class averaged 3%. Is something wrong here?

[waggoner41]

[quote=”maravilla”]Because he paid into it for 40 or more years????? if i had invested all i put into SSA over my working career, i would have a lot more money than i get now from SS.[/quote]

Your congress at work…The Social Security Act contains a stipulation that the trust fund can only invest in instruments that carry “the full faith and credit” of the U.S. government. This limits the trust fund to investing ONLY in instruments issued by the U.S. Treasury Department and they, in fact, pay the lowest return there is.

Had congress allowed 10% of the trust fund to be invested elsewhere our SS income would be greater and SS would not be facing this imaginary shortfall due to the baby boom generation. I call the shortfall imaginary because, even at this late date, it is correctable.

Your comment still misses the point that Social Security was created and intended as a safety net rather than a savings plan.

My SS income is well above the average monthly check of $1,177 and I have a small pension but I still fall below the level required to pay an income tax in the U.S.

We still live comfortably here. How much would it hurt to pay a 10% tax on our untaxed income?

[waggoner41]

[quote=”BeeJ”]Costa Rica collects sails tax. Foreigners bring new money into the country. Everything they buy with that money they pay tax too. So foreign income when spent in CR is being taxed.
In Canada: Foreigners (tourists or not) pay sales tax on what they buy. That’s ok. Though they used to get a return of the gst
(federal portion of our sales tax) if they sent in a form after they left Canada which, by the way, disgruntled Canadians.[/quote]

I can guarantee you that the taxes I pay in Costa Rica are less than 2/3 what I paid on my income in the U.S. That includes Costa Rican property taxes and sales taxes.
The cost of our health care is less than 1/10 of the cost of our health care in the States.

If your retirement income rises above $69,000 the taxes you pay in Costa Rica are then just over 1/2 of the federal marginal income tax rate.

I live in a beautiful country among wonderful people and the taxes I pay for the priveledge would be the envy of all Americans.

So again, when you consider that the average Tico pays the sales tax on the entirety of his income are we not living here at the expense of the Ticos in this tax system?

Any income that we bring to Costa Rica that is taxed elsewhere should be immune to taxation here. We are taxed on every purchase to support the government here leading me to believe that a progressive income tax would better serve Costa Rica even if it comes to taxing the untaxed income of expats.

I know that I am going to get argument against it but rather than complaining about the services we use, such as the poor roads, a better system of financing needs to be in place.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”Imxploring”]As to Social Security income…What many folks don’t realize is that if you have enough “other” income from a pension or such…. Uncle Sam taxes up to 75% of your SS payments in the US… Yep… do the right thing… save… invest… be lucky enough to have a pension plan… and they TAX your SS check thus reducing your payments… even if you’ve maxed out your SS contributions for years!

Since things are so bad for most folks… and pensions plans are fewer these days most folks don’t get hit with this tax on their SS income. But for those of us that have worked hard to save, invested, and planned our retirements… Uncle Sam reduces what he pays you in SS income by taxing it! If Uncle Sam does it… why wouldn’t CR? So as for CR I wouldn’t be surprised if they tried the same thing! Remember, many expats give up their income information to get residency… so dipping into that revenue to tax would require no income information assistance from any other government or added effort on the part of the CR tax officials. They just go back to all that information you gave up on your residency application![/quote]

The point that most Americans are missing is that Social Security, as the name implies, was enacted as a safety net not a savings program. As such I have to wonder why a person with a $100,000 retirement income feels that he is owed Social Security.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”aguirrewar”]Dow Jones Industrial Average Index ($INDU)10,798.57 -326.27 (2.93%)

SDAQ Composite Index ($COMPX)2,480.82 -57.37 (2.26%)

S&P 500 INDEX ($INX)1,136.76 -30.00 (2.57%)

ave. loss between those 3 is (2.586%) OR you lost 2.586 cents out of a dollar

as off 10:35 AM, today in the USA

and in Europe the situation is in CRISIS because of Greece

Next STOP is Portugal and Spain

make sure your AIR BAGS are working, you will need them besides your seatbelt

Best part is South America is not participating in this nightmare[/quote]

THe problems in the U.S. and Europe are self inflicted.:cry:

[waggoner41]

[quote=”aguirrewar”][quote=”waggoner41″]
I do know that there are in excess of 100,000 Americans living here and the number of Canadians is probably near 15% of that. I have no idea how many Europeans are living in Costa Rica.

I also know that if all expats were taxes at a fair rate that we, whether our incomes are great or small in our eyes, could contribute much to improve what we see as the shortcomings of this society.[/quote]

1. None of the above makes me qualify in your opinion
[/quote]

Your situation leaves you unqualified to “have a dog in this fight” but your response is quite correct in your situation. My comments are directed toward those of us who legally live here full time.

When you visit Costa Rica you have the choice of accommodations with a cost range from the $100+ per night American hotels to the local B&B hostels at as little as $35 per night. You have options available to you that can put the cost of a two-week stay in Costa Rica below the cost of the round trip flight. Even as a visitor, you realize that the cost of living here can be well below the cost of living in the States.

The point of my original post is that the sales tax is a regressive tax that puts the burden of financing government services on the poor.

Regarding the Ticos themselves, those at the bottom of the income scale spend their entire income to support their families and pay a sales tax on all of it, those who are able to earn more have the benefit of saving a part of their income and pay sales taxes only on that part of their income that they spend. In addition, the working poor and their employers are subject to a 31% tax to cover government services (health care, education, etc.)

As expats we enjoy special consideration where taxes are concerned in that, although we pay the sales tax, we pay very little for the social services that are available to us whether we use them or not.
In our situation, we use the Caja and have learned how the system works, work within those parameters and the care we have received has been as good as we received in the States. We also realize that these government services are severely underfunded.

Those expats who live here and complain about the poor condition of the infrastructure, the Caja, the educational system and other government programs are also aware that these services are underfunded but they protest if it is suggested that they pay a fair share to make improvements.

They would rather pay the cost of overpriced private health care insurance for the services of private doctors and hospitals and complain about malpractice in the Caja system as if malpractice never existed in the States or the private health care system here.

In the end no one can deny that the income of the average expat is well above that of at least 80% of the Ticos. We do not have to spend all of our income thus avoiding taxation on that portion that is set aside as savings and investment.

Pura Vida 😀

[waggoner41]

[quote=”aguirrewar”] But I like the idea!![/quote]

You have just conceded my point. If you happen to arrive in your underwear, stop by and we will see if we can get you clothed.:lol:

You may, in the end, change your mind about liking the idea. If you are married to a Tica you have a great advantage over me.

I did not come here to live next to expats but I knew no helpful Spanish and great good fortune has provided me with friends with whom I initially had to communicate using the Langenberg internet translation web site.

Social interaction is slowly coming together as more Ticos find out who I am. I have been told by several that I am not what they have come to expect of a Gringo.

When you stop to think about the society here it is much like the U.S. of the 1930’s and earlier. Particularly in the fact that you will find several generations of a family living in one house or several houses sharing a property in mutual support.

You can call me old fashioned or you can call me a throwback but I do appreciate seeing it.

[waggoner41]

[quote=”Scott”]Ha!

You’ve been here long enough to know that nothing is for “sure” in Costa Rica….

Be prepared and always expect the unexpected!

😆

Scott[/quote]

The unexpected would be to see something like this get through the assembly within my lifetime. 😆

The question that I pose is totally rhetorical. I just wonder what it is worth to expats for the pleasure of living here.

I keep bringing up the phrase “for the pleasure of living here” because if it is not why in the name of God would they be here?

[waggoner41]

[quote=”aguirrewar”] Maybe IF you earn Foreign Income while living in CR you should and be taxed in the country you live.[/quote]

So for the pleasure of living in Costa Rica you maintain that you owe nothing in return for a lower cost of living.

I disagree with the idea of double taxation and I dont expect to see that happen but if you wish to live in Costa Rica there must be a reason. While I may be missing something I see the reasons to be either a lower cost of living or the pleasure of living here. If you have another reason I would like to hear it.

In either case isn’t it fair to contribute something? The system of relying on a sales tax to support the government and all that it provides is totally regressive. Where there are those Ticos and expats whose income allows them to save and invest the average family spends everything it makes and pays a sales tax on their entire income.

Just what is fair?

[waggoner41]

[quote=”maravilla”]but what if you never have your social security benefits deposited into an account here in costa rica?[/quote]

I have no bank account in Costa Rica. My SS and my pension are deposited in the States. I am sure that Costa RIca would have no problem getting a treaty with other nations to verify income whether it is active or passive.

We came to Costa Rica for the same reasons that most expats have come here, because we could do here what we could not do in the States. Where we differ from many is in the fact that we had a desire to pay back for a decent life that we led in our native country not to live higher on the hog.

There are many of us here, I think you are included, who have an attachment to the local Tico community in which each of us live. There are others who have the view that they can live a relatively higher lifestyle and accumulate greater wealth. They live in the gated ghettoes and look down on a poorer locals and dont bother to find out that that the locals are friendly, helpful and generous.

While I have no problem with the second point of view it seems that, as a community, expats could contribute to improve what we have found here to our mutual benefit. If it is done through some form of taxation so be it.

One group that I have a high regard for is the Womens Club of Costa Rica. They have managed to make technological contributions through donations to the national medical system that would not be available through other means.

In the States our property taxes, paid in to the counties, supported the educational system while out income taxes helped pay for infrastructure improvement.

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