Paragon Properties Costa Rica – Part II – 2005 Discussion Forum
terrytica
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 25 May 2005 09:03 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
I think Scott poses some very good questions, most of which will NOT be answered by a visit to the project. I have visited the project near Parrita several times since my clients first started asking me about it.
As a buyers agent realtor, part of my job is to assist my clients judging between what is a really good deal and what is too good to be true. What I tell my clients is to do their homework.
Property with ocean views in that area can be had for around $2 a meter or even less, but usually you have to buy much more than a hectaria or 2 at a time. At $65,000 a hectaria that comes to $6.5 per square meter which is a good price ONLY if all the infrastructure is there or if you have faith that it soon will be.
In that, one must rely either on past experience with the developer, or on your “gut” or some other method. Unfortunately most of us do not possess psychic abilities and since I am from Missouri I have this problem of wanting to see the proof. That means legal proof that will hold up in a court of law here in Costa Rica. A contract doesn’t mean anything here if it goes against the laws of Costa Rica.
Speaking of Costa Rican law, the fact of the water bothers me also, not that they have not decided on a source, but the fact that to drill a well here in Costa Rica requires a permit from the government, the fact that the location has not been decided makes me think that there is no permit…yet… what happens if it is not granted as is happening in other parts of Costa Rica?
Then there is the problem with identifying your particular lot and the legal proof of same cannot be available until it can be LEGALLY subdivided.
To this date no one has been able to clear up this detail to my satisfaction. Like I said before some of the lots will have spectacular views of the ocean, of that there is little doubt, but some will not. I know there will be a lot of folks who are disappointed if they were told all the lots have ocean views and according to one of my clients that is what he was promised, I have no way of checking the accuracy of that, but he was expecting an ocean view.
My client was also told the project was not more than 2 miles from the ocean. I think I clocked it at like 7 or was it 11? Anyhow, many more than 2.
It may not seem like much to someone who wheels and deals millions of dollars, but when my clients come to me and say they have $70,000 socked away, it usually represents their savings for years, even a lifetime, to me that is a HUGE responsibility that I do not take lightly so please forgive me (and I am sure Scott also) if we seem overly cautious. That is what we get paid for!
Soon2BNXpat
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 24
PostPosted: 25 May 2005 02:35 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
I agree with Trevor. If there is no infrastructure yet, what is there to see? I think Scott’s above post certainly raises some valid questions about the people involved in the marketing of this development.
terrytica
Joined: 16 Nov 2004
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 25 May 2005 09:03 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
I think Scott poses some very good questions, most of which will NOT be answered by a visit to the project. I have visited the project near Parrita several times since my clients first started asking me about it.
As a buyers agent realtor, part of my job is to assist my clients judging between what is a really good deal and what is too good to be true. What I tell my clients is to do their homework.
Property with ocean views in that area can be had for around $2 a meter or even less, but usually you have to buy much more than a hectaria or 2 at a time. At $65,000 a hectaria that comes to $6.5 per square meter which is a good price ONLY if all the infrastructure is there or if you have faith that it soon will be.
In that, one must rely either on past experience with the developer, or on your “gut” or some other method. Unfortunately most of us do not possess psychic abilities and since I am from Missouri I have this problem of wanting to see the proof. That means legal proof that will hold up in a court of law here in Costa Rica. A contract doesn’t mean anything here if it goes against the laws of Costa Rica.
Speaking of Costa Rican law, the fact of the water bothers me also, not that they have not decided on a source, but the fact that to drill a well here in Costa Rica requires a permit from the government, the fact that the location has not been decided makes me think that there is no permit…yet… what happens if it is not granted as is happening in other parts of Costa Rica?
Then there is the problem with identifying your particular lot and the legal proof of same cannot be available until it can be LEGALLY subdivided.
To this date no one has been able to clear up this detail to my satisfaction. Like I said before some of the lots will have spectacular views of the ocean, of that there is little doubt, but some will not. I know there will be a lot of folks who are disappointed if they were told all the lots have ocean views and according to one of my clients that is what he was promised, I have no way of checking the accuracy of that, but he was expecting an ocean view.
My client was also told the project was not more than 2 miles from the ocean. I think I clocked it at like 7 or was it 11? Anyhow, many more than 2.
It may not seem like much to someone who wheels and deals millions of dollars, but when my clients come to me and say they have $70,000 socked away, it usually represents their savings for years, even a lifetime, to me that is a HUGE responsibility that I do not take lightly so please forgive me (and I am sure Scott also) if we seem overly cautious. That is what we get paid for!
bikinis
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 25 May 2005 09:20 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
I am new to this forum but am very familiar with marketing and have spent several years marketing US politicians. To be honest selling a US politician is kind of like selling an old turd. It is just much easier to buy them.
What I am reading here is starting to give off an aroma similar to that given off by most political campaigns.
After researching Paragon and the “stellar” history of Mr. Tashman I am impelled to have locks installed on my pockets should I venture too close to this person with questionable motives and apparently no experience in the area of real estate development.
I do believe that Mr. Tashman is well versed at creating tools to generate money, the problem I see is that while his money generating tool is humming away, they forgot to develop the Project Completion part of their tool.
I am sure we all remember those stories about people being sweet talked into buying desert property in Arizona or swampland in Florida and while this Paragon offering in Costa Rica looks better, it still anemically lacks any real plan and has made no progress in negotiating with the necessary powers that be to make it possible for this project to be successful.
Those of you who are considering sending $25,000 to Paragon, please reconsider, just send your money to me and I promise I will send you a nice video showing how much fun I had spending your money.
By the way ezimage while you claim you are not paid by Paragon, your sales pitch that totally lacks any real information prompts me to suggest you contact your buddy Mr. Tashman for some wages to reward your blind loyalty. That link to AM Costa Rica you posted didn’t exist but you might find this one of interest. http://www.amcostarica.com/120704.htm
If anyone wants the advice of a jaded political adman, when you hear the name Paragon Properties, run away screaming.
reiman
Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Posts: 4
PostPosted: 25 May 2005 09:24 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
By the way, according to the person who was trying to sell us the lot at paragon property, they won’t let you visit the property or even tell you exactly where it is unless you send them 25,000. This is regardless of whether or not you are going to take advantage of the hotel and driver they would provide for 3 days. They also insist on the whole 3 days to view the property. In addition, when we asked about the infrastructure there were a lot of unanswered questions including some vague answers about association fees etc. the association fees they quoted us alone were $150 dollars a month and they would not spell out what they were used for nor guarantee they would be used for the project. We did happen to see the sign for the development when we were traveling back and forth between Parrita and Quepos. The development is way in back of the palm plantation, probably about a 30-40 minute or so drive to the ocean if you could do it as the crow flies, which you cant. Just a few thoughts from someone who has dealt with them and at this point is unbiased (we ended up buying some other property).
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crtreedude
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Ciudad Quesada, Costa Rica
PostPosted: 25 May 2005 10:33 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
Interesting thread,
Just my dos colones which as some of you might know, isn’t worth a whole lot.
You don’t need Paragon Properties to buy real estate in Costa Rica. The normal recommendation is to live here for a while first. Costa Rica is different. Yes it is beautiful, yes it is warm, but I assure you, living here is not the same as your vacation was – I am sure Scott would agree and others would agree.
Secondly, if you live here, you will pick up deals much, much better than if you work with people who are trying to sell you something. Come here, live here for 6 months and then decide if you really like it here – THEN look around for your dream home. Oh, while you are waiting, LEARN SPANISH. Remember, the bulk of the people here are Ticos, not English speaking – if you want a good deal, learn to speak Spanish.
Don’t worry about finding a place, there will be plenty available from those who didn’t do their homework and have decided that they just can’t stand it. Just because you fell in love with Costa Rica, don’t let it be one of the biggest mistakes you ever made in your life.
Reading through this thread, a couple of observations – a person who has invested in Paragon Properties is not likely to easily say that they were wrong. The Chairman of the company is not likely to tell you that you could do better elsewhere or they have something going one wrong. (How soon we forget – can you say Enron?) Scott is in the business of financial advice. It seems the questions that he has asked are reasonable and deserve answers.
One big assumption that I am seeing that is common for people who don’t live here – thinking that building infrastructure is just a matter of getting it done. You start to think differently when you start working with the government here – trust me – as soon as the government is involved, delays mount up. For example, for one of our properties, the plano had to be redone 5 times – over the course of two years. A process that should have taken 3 months took 2 years. Deal with it.
By the way, for the record, we do love being here. Very Happy
Again, just my dos colones. You can count them as worthless if you wish and I will not care.
Fred
P.S. As far as is Paragon Properties a good investment – I haven’t a clue and I don’t care. Not my cup of tea.
trevorchil
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: 26 May 2005 01:15 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
Credibility always means a great deal especiallywhen there is a lack of paper and/or infrastructure so to further add to this question is a
quote by someone telemarketed Paragon that sent this to me from the company webb site and asked for my verification of the facts as presented to see if fundamental facts checked out:
“By the way, they list Orotina becuase they are saying the government
approved an international airport to be build there plus they are saying
the super highway is 95% done.
My response:
“This gets stupider by the minute!!!
International airport in Orotina!!! How incredibly ridiculous in the land of the preposterous why not just go look for ATlantis. Orotina will never get an airport there is nothing there and only just over an hour from the San Jose airport what government would do something this stupid? Especially cash strapped Costa Rica would do this. Yes they want to expand the Palmar Sur airport into jet status/international like they did Liberia to serve the south pacific zone where lots of tourism is exploding but that is a mere 3 1/2 hours drive south of Orotina.
Super highway that is a joke A) it is a two lane road not even freeway status B) the bridges are built that is it C) now they are battling with land concessions as they have not dealt with the land owners along the new right of way in fact the contractor walked away from the contract as they saw it several years of mess for the government to acquire the necessary land and they sure as h*** were not about to honour a contract price some five years in the future from date of contract approval. So this is far from a done deal. The highway is a stupid political idea to begin with and should not even be built there is other way more important roads needing upgrading in the national tourism routes prior to this whim just so the money and connected boys can get to their condos at Los Suenos 30 minutes quicker. So in final translation, talk about something being lost, so in actual reality the super highway 95% built really consists of a bunch of bridges connected by gravel road that in rainy season requires a 4×4. Gee check your dictionary and see if that equals your definition. ”
So the question remains when you find glaring factual errors in any business proposal how many more is there? Other than that us locals are just dum smucks and all the experts happen to live five countries away. What none of us locals wants is people to get burned and add another black mark to investment history here that serves no end to anyone except the guy holding the cash. You can rest assured as past experience has proven the victims never look in the mirror for the guilty party. The only final proof that means anything is when every client gets their serviced lot, along with a catastro for such, until then the jury remains out and NOT ONE OF THE PURCHASERS OR US ON THE SIDELINES KNOWS THAT!!!
randyb
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 26 May 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
To all readers of this forum: I have been aware of Paragon properties for over a year and a half. There is no doubt that there is a tremendous controversy concerning the principals of the company and the products they are offering for sale. I own a real estate company and have had many people ask me specific questions about Paragon also. My response was always: do your homework!… which is good advice when purchasing anything in Costa Rica, but especially sight unseen.
I received three phone calls and numberous emails threatening lawsuits after I posted my advice. I was told my Paragon’s company attorney from Paragon that he would institute an immediate lawsuit against me unless I stopped any and all postings immediately. For those of you who do not live in Costa Rica, there are very stringent and tough slander and defamation of character laws here. And I do believe, without a doubt that Paragon will in fact sue anyone who is negative about their company , because we are talking millions and millions of dollars of profits here. They will do whatever it takes to ensure that they stay in business for as long as possible. I know of three other real estate people who have been threatened as well for simply telling people to BE CAREFUL.
What does this say about Paragon? Draw your own conlusions. Read the articles in existence, visit the properties and talk to others , and anyone else you can. Scott Oliver does not have a personal ax to grind ith Paragon. He simply wants to make sure that his readers are aware of exactly what they are doing. It is called full disclosure and no reputable company should be afraid of it.
crtreedude
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Ciudad Quesada, Costa Rica
PostPosted: 26 May 2005 01:14 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
Being someone who has clients who invest in things, there are approaches to make sure that the money is spent on what it was intended, instead of going to personal jets and the life styles of the rich and famous (not saying this is the case with Paragon Properties – I don’t know them)
It is possible to have something called a Project Management Trust fund. All the money is placed there – commissions are paid, etc. and development is done from this fund and the money is doled out by the managers of the fund who have no connection to the principles. A project plan is presented and followed – with of course the normal adjustments to the plan that are always necessary.
This way people’s money is protected and is used for the purpose it was intended and, as an added advantage, the Project Management Trust can produce a public report regarding the finances of people’s investment.
If Paragon is doing this, it is a very good thing. If they are not, it doesn’t mean they are crooks – but it would be a very easy way for them to deal with the discomfort that people are getting in investing in them.
I personally get very uncomfortable when there are large amounts of money just flowing around with no oversight by a third party.
Also, this would do much more in my opinion to lay to rest the objections of the critics than showing the properties. I could easily show you a property today and sell it after receiving your money tomorrow. But, if I don’t have access to your money… or the asset of the land… I sort of have to do what I said to ever make any money on the deal.
It also insures that if something were to happen to the principles of the corporation, the construction can still be done, or the money returned to the investors.
Just thinking out loud – especially since this is something I am currently working on – a person brought this up to us and I really like the idea and so we are starting to work on it.
Scott – I think this might be something you know about and could comment. I would love to know about your take on this.
asomhugo
Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 26 May 2005 04:06 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
The landscape of Costa Rica is dotted with promised dreams–many of which are lieing in ruin. Fancy gates, coloful brochures, wonderful designs, etc……and purchasers who often times have few resources to fall back on, left scratching their heads. Few admit to having been scamed; few admit to having made the “investment”. I simply find it amazing that someone would plunk down any amount of money, refundable or not, having not seen the property, not having it checked out by a competent (hard to find but they are available) attorney, ensuring that title is clear, that there is absolute certainty that what is “purchased” is labeled and included in the “purchase agreement”, with a survey and description attached, etc. …and that infrastructure was in place. I guess P.T. Barnum’s obervation is still correct.
Re. Scott Oliver’s questions: I’m really looking forward to the replies. (I once had an English teacher who told her students to look for little words in the larger words to help them remember how to spell. Isn’t “replies” an interesting word here? Whether Paragon is a scam or one of the many promises I don’t know; it follows the pattern. My concern, like others stated here, is that if Paragon is a scam, that it will simply put another black mark on the Costa Rican development landscape and make it that much more difficult for legitimate developers to attract purchasers whose dreams can and will be fulfilled.
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fionab
Joined: 21 Jan 2005
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 26 May 2005 11:55 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
I’ve just come across this and forgive me for being ‘estupida’ but having spent a lot of time on the South coast of Costa Rica, I just want to make sure I am understanding this correctly?
1. This company is sending out 30 million emails per week – Isn’t that called SPAM? Which means that with 250 million’ish Americans, they’ll be finished with their email campaign in under ten days. Sure! I can believe that!
2. Are you guys exageratting when you say they will not show you the land before you buy it?
3. And you can not even see good photographs of the land for sale on their website?
4. And if you want to see it, you have to give them $25,000 of your hard earned money BEFORE they will allow you to see it?
5. And their salesmen are paid 13% (??) of that in commission
6. It would appear that none of these people have any real estate development experience in any country! Am I right?
7. The property does not have water, sewers or electricity?
8. I’m guessing that the nearest good hospital that us ‘Gringas’ would feel comfortable with is about four HOURS away, no?
9. I have never seen any signs of a superhighway there, wher is it exactly?
10. I have never seen an “international airport” there, where is that?
11. If the land is not legally separated, you really can not be the legal owner? Am I right?
12. So if you are buying a Costa Rican corporation (which you could buy yourself for $500) even the corporation can not legally own that land, am I right?
13. How could you trust a company that can’t get their Costa Rica real estate facts right? (Property taxes) Isn’t that important?
Would you be worried if your Doctor didn’t know what a healthy human temperature should be? Isn’t it that basic?
14. Having looked at those Florida newspaper articles, it is obvious that the people behind this project have EXTREMELY “questionable” backgrounds (she said politely)
15. Their present boiler room ‘sales’ practices selling land in Costa Rica appear to be EXACTLY like their other business with ostriches, oil & gas partnerships and whatever else – no?
I don’t like to insult anyone but why would anyone even consider this?
Soon2BNXpat
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 24
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 01:21 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
“15. Their present boiler room ‘sales’ practices selling land in Costa Rica appear to be EXACTLY like their other business with ostriches, oil & gas partnerships and whatever else – no?
I don’t like to insult anyone but why would anyone even consider this?”
That’s what I’m trying to figure out!!! I bought land in Costa Rica recently. The land was subdivided and the lots were clearly marked. There was water, septic, and power to the lot. Everything was neat and clean, legally. I didn’t have to pay a ghastly sum of money to look at it before I decided to buy it either. I wonder what happens to that $25,000 that is put up just to view the lot. Is it held in an interest-bearing account, and for how long, especially if the person decides NOT to buy, and who gets to keep all the earned interest?
AlaskaDan
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 01:44 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
All I can say at this point is that this Paragon thing is beginning to look more like what I first thought it would when they forst contacted me and I recieved their “info package”. I have seen, over the years many scams run on people and to me this seemed to have all the ear marks of yet another one, so I am very glad that I started to investigate before making any commitments. I would like to say thank you to all who have taken time to post their ideas and the information they have given to those of us who still believe in the “To good to be true” mantra. The best to you all and a special thanks to Scotto for his website and this open forum, from Alaska.
grandpa
Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 06:08 pm Post subject: Reply from Paragon Properties
Adios to Scott Oliver
I have done my level best to exchange meaningful and useful information so that readers on this board will bask in more light than heat, but it is transparent that everything Mr. Oliver does is designed to serve his own personal and commercial self-promotion. We’ve had enough, and so. I tend to believe, have most readers.
The endless questions, the endless personal attacks on my friend and consultant, the refusal to meet us, the refusal to view the properties, the insincere use of the remarks of others as if they were not his own so as to avoid responsibility for the broadcast of his self-serving hostility for Paragon’s real estate and development projects, reveal what Mr. Oliver is: An individual who is comfortable trashing others and their hard work in order to make a few more bucks.
For those of you who still care, I am pleased to direct you to our website to view Paragon’s properties and the work accomplished thus far to bring to realization our customers’ dreams of owning ocean- and mountain-view lots, especially once improved with homes limited only by the imagination. Visitors to our site, http://www.paragonpropertiesofcr.com/video , and those who want to see the properties first-hand, can then evaluate our accomplishments for themselves. It’s just too bad Mr. Oliver is not motivated to see our properties for himself.
Every customer of Paragon has had the opportunity to contact me personally. I now extend that opportunity to any reader of this Forum as well. By all means call me at (954) 925-1153, or send an email at wagale@aol.com.
And with that, Mr. Oliver, we bid you goodbye.
Bill Gale
Chairman, Paragon Properties of Costa Rica, S.A.
http://www.paragonpropertiesofcr.com/video/
AlaskaDan
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
Posts: 0
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 06:32 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties Reply with quote
HMMM! Imagine that running when the road gets rocky and people dont just cave into his way of thinking instead of answering real questions and concerns. Well as the old saying goes “Good ridance to bad rubbish.”
crtreedude
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Ciudad Quesada, Costa Rica
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 08:41 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
Dear Bill Gale,
My question still stands – who controls the money? I would think the investors need to know and want to know. I know I would want to know if I had trusted you with money to build something for me.
Anyone can claim to be upright and virtuous – however – it is my experience that those who do the most claiming, often are the people I have to beware of the most – can anyone say “TV Evangelist”?
I really don’t think you have been trying to answer the hard questions, just saying “Come and see”.
We actually send to people financial disclosures – does Paragon do this? If not, why not?
Just because you say you have done your level best doesn’t mean you have.
Please do not speak for me when you say the readers are satisfied – Scott – perhaps a poll is in order? Wink
scotto
Guest
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 09:07 pm Post subject: Before you go Mr. Gale… Reply with quote
Once again, you show me nothing that would “motivate” me to actually spend any of my valuable time visiting your projects.
Your response here is like the ‘Tommy the Castrated Toucan’ promotional video that you link to that can only be described as ‘fluffy’ and certainly not “meaningful”.
What a magnificent opportunity you were given… An open forum for people wishing to live and buy real estate here, people who have all sorts of questions about Paragon and yet …
Both your ‘Discussion Forum’ postings here and your video have FAILED COMPLETELY to answer EVERY SINGLE QUESTION & CONCERN that has been voiced here in this forum.
One thing before you Mr. Gale…
We hereby offer you one hundred thousand colones if you can show us photographs of the new superhighway and the new international airport that your ‘Tommy the Toucan’ video tells everyone they are building down there near your project?
Before you guffaw at the idea… If you can do that, not only will I visit you, I’ll also buy you a cup of good Costa Rica coffee.
Soon2BNXpat
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 24
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 09:28 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
Me thinks that Bill Gale doth protest too much!! His posts and the posts from the “plants” are so transparent, it’s not even laughable anymore. What’s that they say about a good offense being the best defense???? ROTFLMAO!!
crtreedude
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Ciudad Quesada, Costa Rica
PostPosted: 27 May 2005 09:33 pm Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
My wife described to me once a technique that I think would work in this kind of situation – it is called the broken record technique.
You just keep asking the same questions until finally they answer or say they are not going to.
Sales people like to divert you from your questions – this is generally a good time to grab you wallet.
My dos colones,
Fred
Soon2BNXpat
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 24
PostPosted: 28 May 2005 02:30 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
And then there’s this little tidbit:
Dear prospective and current clients,
Warning to property seekers!
Our ‘Corporate Video’ has been produced by many talented, dedicated and professional people under our employment. Over the past few years there have been a number of non-related and unfamiliar developers who have pirated our video, from our web site, and claimed it as their own. It’s our policy to immediate contact these companies and insist that they remove our video from their websites. Most do but some don’t. Below is a list of those who don’t.
It’s our opinion that anyone looking to purchase property in our beautiful country of Costa Rica should proceed with caution when dealing with these individuals who apparently don’t have the means to support and finance their own marketing efforts.
Costa Rica is a beautiful place to play and live – please be wise with your capital and recognize those who need your money rather than you as a neighbour.
***** BE CAREFUL of these companies! *****
In business a very short time.
Paragon Properties of Costa Rica, S.A.
Parque Empresarial Forum Santa Ana , (a simple mailing address)
Torre G Piso #1 Santa Ana Costa Rica
PHONE (506) 201-1453 (doesn’t always work.)
Owners Name: “INRI ROBLES” (very difficult to get in touch with – never returned any of our calls or letters.)
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crtreedude
Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 1
Location: Ciudad Quesada, Costa Rica
PostPosted: 28 May 2005 10:17 am Post subject: RE: Paragon Properties
For those who want to see the website.
The webpage with this information is:
http://morgan.owncostarica.biz/CostaRica/video/warning.html
P.S. The morgan here has no relationship to me.
I just did an easy search and found it.
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